[ranger_danger]

> Why has the Tor Project created a network used extensively for child sexual abuse

Hottest take of the week right there.

Why do they seem to imply that Tor was somehow created explicitly with this purpose in mind? That's like saying only criminals use the Internet, just because it can be used to commit crimes.

I think they are taking Tor's words and applying it to a much broader scope than they originally intended.

> Tor Browser prevents someone watching your connection from knowing what websites you visit.

If someone is watching only your connection as it exits your local ISP and nothing else, then yes, this is in fact true. It's just not articulated that plainly.

But if the author actually went as far as they are trying to, they might as well tell people to just give up because there's a chance your attacker already controls the destination server you're talking to in the first place.

If you're going to the trouble of trying to calculate the chances that nodes in the middle are compromised, why not include the destination itself too?

> The small set of people that centrally control Tor software and centrally manage the Tor network have the power to act to stop this abuse without lessening their (weak) protections.

Source: trust me bro

> The world's standards for encrypting data are so secure that no one has enough money or time to brute force their way into properly encrypted data, not even governments. They are better off waiting for a scientific breakthrough that may never come.

This completely disregards the possibility that any one of a number of root CAs aren't already compromised or cannot be coerced by your attacker.

If you're going to claim tor is insecure, you might as well go all the way and say it's pointless to use anything at all, ever.

[nickdurfe]

> Why has the US created a highway system used extensively for causing death?

[ranger_danger]

Reminds me of https://0x0.st/XJZT.jpg

[bnl_umass]

My apologies. I don’t believe that was their intent to create a network for csam. But after decades of it being used extensively for csam, why would they take no corrective action?

[ranger_danger]

Maybe because there isn't a known solution?

CSAM is still distributed on the clearnet too... why isn't there a "solution" for that too?

So far the only solutions people seem to have come up with is mass surveillance, and that's not an option.

[bnl_umass]

There is a known solution.

Did you know that the Tor Project allows exit nodes to filter based on the clear internet IP. So filtering is ok.

However, if a relay refuses to service an onion site directory look up, it will be banned by the Directory Authority. They could allow this today. But they don’t. That’s the simple solution. No surveillance. Not back door. No less privacy for everyone else.

edit: This is easy to confirm. I’m not asking anyone to trust me.

[ranger_danger]

Exit nodes are not used for onion services. From https://onionservices.torproject.org/technology/properties/:

> For the Tor network, Onion Services can alleviate the load on exit nodes, since it's connections don't need to reach the exits.

Also:

> Directory Authority.

"These authorities are operated by trusted organizations or individuals with a strong commitment to the principles of privacy, security, and network neutrality."

Emphasis on neutrality... it's not the job of network operators to police the sites people can and can't access, this is exactly why many people use Tor in the first place.

> They could allow this today. But they don’t.

Speaking for onion services... no, they cannot, because the entire design of the tor network prevents this in the first place. No relay in the circuit knows the final destination because it is encrypted multiple times (like an onion) and each hop can only see where it needs to go next, not what the destination is.

[neutered_knot]

I think the point is that exit node operators can filter traffic they don’t want to support. Guard and middle nodes are not given the same choice; they apparently must support all traffic or get booted. Why can’t other nodes have freedom to decide how they want to participate?

[ranger_danger]

> Why can’t other nodes have freedom to decide how they want to participate?

Because the network was explicitly designed to not allow this... otherwise it becomes subject to censorship, which is one of the main goals they try to prevent.

The (onion) address itself is never transmitted in plaintext through the Tor network... when you access an onion site, your Tor client encrypts the traffic multiple times, literally like an onion. No relay in the circuit knows the final destination.

[torexitoperator]

>Did you know that the Tor Project allows exit nodes to filter based on the clear internet IP. So filtering is ok.

That's simply not true. Exit operators who intentionally block websites are flagged as bad relays.

https://community.torproject.org/policies/relays/expectation... https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/team/-/wiki...

[neutered_knot]

I think that is referring to the node exit policy, which explicitly allows particular ports and IP addresses to be blocked.

https://support.torproject.org/relay-operators/exit-policies...

The documents you referred to just say you need to honor your own exit policy.

[basedrum]

Your assumptions are based on faulty understanding of how tor works.

[bnl_umass]

I understand well how it works. I agree this is not possible today’s code base but that limitation is due to a design choice. It’s due to a policy decision that the privacy of children who have been sexually exploited is not as important as the privacy of others (including the privacy of people who sexually exploit children). It’s not a technical limitation. It’s a flaw.

Specifically, it would be easy to add code to hsdir functionality to deny requests for onion sites that are known to be related to csam. Those sites could be announced by the DAs as part of the consensus file, for example. The Tor Project currently lets exit nodes filter by IP address as long as they announce that in their config; this new functionality is of the same kind in the abstract. This change would not be a backdoor. It’s not going to weaken the privacy of anyone using Tor.

The current setup is an extremist position that children who have been abused are not deserving of privacy. It’s a position that all information deserves to be free even if that information is very clearly harmful to others and has no positive benefit to society. One can have that opinion but you won’t find many (outside of this thread) that agree.