[efsavage]

I overheard two very outgoing co-workers once, where one asked the other if he was having his holiday party.

"It was last weekend", he said.

"Oh, I didn't get an invite"

"That's because you never come"

She looked shocked, I think she genuinely didn't know what to say. After an awkward silence she said, "but I liked to be invited"

"I'll happily invite you next year if you promise to come"

She smiled politely and walked away.

It was memorable to me because it was such a foreign interaction on both sides from my perspective.

[dexterdog]

It's probably just ego on the one side. That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship. If I were the other person I would make sure that invitation is never extended.

[singhrac]

Who cares if they feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship? Do you decide your framework based on mental games other people might play? Decide if extending an invite that is declined will cost you something (food, space, etc.) and whether you want the person there.

[teapot7]

Or because they're shy and antisocial but it's nice to think that they're part of the gang - as the original article was all about.

[nine_k]

It's understandable, but in no way nice. One side is going to bring their authentic shy and antisocial self, and stonewall the invitations, while the other side needs to keep smiling and send invitations no matter what. This sounds slightly lopsided, doesn't it?

If you would like the other side to do you a small favor every time, it's worth considering to do the same. At least respond to the invitation with gratitude and a hope to maybe do it next time.

[BeetleB]

> while the other side needs to keep smiling and send invitations no matter what.

No one is suggesting one needs to. It's a choice. And when you make it a choice, it is indeed nice.

[volemo]

People have different capacity for social "niceties". Sometimes I'm full of energy and am happy to be Alexei for someone, sometimes I am Anna.

[WA]

You can overcome shyness to some extend. Not getting invited anymore can also be a sign that the shy person has to change something about their behavior, instead of all others just accepting that.

[mrheosuper]

>the shy person has to change something about their behavior

This is like asking depressing people to stop being "depressing"

[mock-possum]

Oh wow that is foreign to me, but I’m sure you’re right - Collecting invites you never intend to answer just sounds like… I don’t know, some sort of weird social hoarding.

If somebody I don’t want to hang out with keeps inviting me that doesn’t make me feel good about myself, that makes me feel anxious, like I haven’t properly clarified our relationship with them.

> That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship.

For me, I would expect the opposite - if you get invited all the time but never come, it’s because you’re not actually involved in their life, you’re not actually all that valuable. In order to be valuable you’d have to be making the effort to be present, or at the very least, communicating your availability so the other person would better understand when it’s appropriate to expect you.

[mac-mc]

It is ultimately a form of insecurity.

[watwut]

> That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship

Or it was just a comment without any major feelings of dominance attached to it. Some people interpret everything as a status fight, but most dont.

[squigz]

I'm so glad I don't understand and thus can't play these games with people. It sounds tiring.

[snapcaster]

What part don't you understand? I'm sure you engage with other forms of social status and signaling and this one seems pretty straightforward

[Zenbit_UX]

I believe they were implying they don’t get social cues due to neurodivergence, likely autism. Hilariously you’re also not picking up on their social cues and implications, which is likewise telling.

[squigz]

Quite right. Reading such intense motives behind such simple interactions is one of those allistic things that has me going like ???

[BeetleB]

Not reading such motives is not a sign of neurodivergence. If people are jumping to these types of conclusions, it's their deficiency. Plenty of normal, non-neurodivergent people refuse to read much into these things.

I've read a number of books on effective communications, and they all emphasize not to read into these signals, and when you do, to go and have a conversation about it to confirm them. I found, as many have, that the error rate is about 50% (i.e. half the time you read the signals wrong).

These books are for normal people - not neurodivergent folks.

[bckr]

It’s perhaps even more maddening than that. Even if all these factors are at play, it doesn’t mean they actually matter all that much to anyone involved. These two coworkers might otherwise really get along and respect each other, but this is one of the games that they are playing with each other.

On the surface, implicitly negotiating over who is more important sounds horribly dramatic, but it’s a game that’s happening constantly among everyone. Usually folks push and pull over some equilibrium point, one person making concessions, then the other, in turns, with the actual hierarchy determining roughly how many turns each person should concede before making a demand of the other. This is where you get dynamics like “he’s a very demanding boss but he cares a lot about his employees” (high amplitude of switching between demand and concession) or “she’s very sharp but also hard to get along with” (doesn’t concede enough to make others feel important).

Concession in this game can be anything, small to large, from being the one who opens the door to let the other through, to offering help during personal problems, to letting someone take more credit on a collaboration.

But, again, these are all played in the implicit layer. They can be raised to the explicit layer by having a “heart to heart”, like “you’re always so kind. I appreciated when you did XYZ”, or “I’d really like if sometimes you did ABC”.

[snapcaster]

I did, but felt rude to just tell them they're autistic

[tripzilch]

Yeah and you were rude anyway.

Here's some advice: There will be literally never, ever, be a situation in your life when it is okay or even remotely appropriate to tell somebody else that "they're autistic".

If you figure that someone is autistic just make the accommodation you notice they need, because if you don't you are in fact the one being demanding of them to do the work to make the social thing happen on account of two people.

[mfru]

That sounds like you projecting onto others

[jacquesm]

You can't feel powerful by rejecting an invitation that you never receive in the first place.