[simianparrot]

And look at Germany now. I have friends and family there. Merkel’s utopian naïveté has certainly not benefited Germany at this point. It went way too far.

I can’t believe people are like this. But it explains why Europe is more and more split on this topic: It’s two irreconcilable worldviews and one of them requires ignoring observed reality.

[actionfromafar]

Are you making the case that Germany should not have united?

[em-bee]

you are completely missing the point. what exactly should germany have done? let those people suffer? stick them in crowded refugee camps?

you do not get to turn a generous humanitarian aid gesture into blaming germany for being dumb to let all these people in.

this is not ignoring observed reality. observed reality is a consequence of people not being welcoming enough. of not being supporting and considerate of the foreign culture and not doing enough to befriend these people. as i linked in my other post, i wrote about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44746099 we are not letting these people integrate in a way that allows them to keep some of their culture while giving them an opportunity to learn about our culture.

yes, the current reality may be rough. but those are growing pains. and they are consequences of war, and not consequences of allowing to many people to enter the country. by sharing the consequences of these wars germany becomes an ally to the victims, and that is a good thing. rejecting refugees would have turned germany into a villain and an ally of the perpetrators. i'd be ashamed if that happened.

[simianparrot]

I’m sorry, but not being welcoming _enough_!? Seeing the incredible, life altering strain the German model has put on the lower and middle class while they’ve bent over backwards to be more welcoming to strangers that share none of their values and consistently and purposefully alienate themselves from the general German population, I simply cannot agree we are observing the same reality.

Full disclaimer: Some of my friends are also immigrants from the 80’s. And they’re equally exacerbated by the state of Germany because the country and culture they love is deteriorating out of suicidal empathy.

[em-bee]

i have traveled and lived in countries all over the world. first in europe and western countries. already there i found there is a gradual change of friendliness the farther south i went. among western countries the US is the most friendly. despite their issues with racism, the people are welcoming to foreigners and immigrants.

then i visited asia, and i was shocked how much more friendly and welcoming people are there. if you haven't been there it is unimaginable. same goes for africa. seriously. on a global scale, europeans are the worst in being welcoming. so, yes. germans are not welcoming enough. they are principled however, and it is those principles that made them invite those refugees.

the state of germany is not deteriorating because of empathy, but because of the unwillingness of some people to adapt and adjust to the new reality. this lack of adaption leads to confrontation, and that confrontation is the cause of any deterioration. the culture is not destroyed by immigrants. it is destroyed by lack of tolerance and unreasonable expectations.