[bichiliad]

This is extremely reductive. Just as OP doesn’t support Russia in its war against Ukraine, and just as many US citizens don’t support America’s actions abroad, there aren’t any countries that teach their kids to chant “death to America” for the fun of it. Not to mention the fact that there are options that aren’t “economic oppression” or “war.”

[simianparrot]

Why would "for the fun of it" be a prerequisite for it to be bad..?

If someone shouts "death to <my name>" from across the street, I take it _very_ seriously.

I fully understand the history between Iran and the US, but you you can't have suicidal empathy with an enemy state that trains its people to want you dead.

[somenameforme]

If you visit Iran (or pretty much anywhere) as an American you'll have zero issues with the people. Here [1] is a thread of various people visiting Iran, and it's 100% typical. The average Iranian has no problems with an American than anybody else - they have a problem with the American government. And the two are obviously two extremely different things.

The one piece of advice that shouldn't need to be said, but does, is that when traveling to Rome you need to do as the Romans do. You probably would have problems if e.g. you bring a homosexual partner along and make that relationship apparent in public, are a woman who tries go without a hijab, etc. Be respectful of the culture, and people will be respectful of you - regardless of where you happen to come from.

[1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/comments/111xz3l/comment/j8p...

[simianparrot]

And I wrote that the US is at war with an enemy _state_. The state represents its people, but it is not _all of_ the people. I always see people derailing these discussions in this manner when it's always patently obvious that we aren't conflating the two.

[somenameforme]

But you are specifically conflating the two. Not only in your implication that Iranians, normal Iranians - children even, want Americans dead, but in your defense of sanctions. Sanctions have no meaningful affect on countries - as in the political leadership and military, but can have a substantially negative impact on the people within that country. In many ways they are even more barbaric than war, because at least in war there is a viable goal and you are targeting the state and its military. Civilians are unfortunate 'collateral damage', not the target.

With sanctions you just inflict suffering on the people for no realistic reason or goal. The idea it'll drive people to overthrow their government and align themselves with the people inflicting mass suffering on them is just so inexorably stupid. It's not even illogical - it is anti-logical. I expect that one day it will be looked upon in the same way that today we might look back on drawing and quartering people as a punishment.

[simianparrot]

Any warfare hurts civilians. And there's no kinetic warfare that is guaranteed to not hit civilians. In fact we can observe how impossible that is all throughout the world, today.

I'm fairly sure given the choice, civilians would rather their country be sanctioned than bombed. Obviously the best option is no conflict at all, but that's utopian.

[somenameforme]

The Lancet just released a study on this exact question. [1] From 1971 to 2021, "unilateral, economic, and US sanctions" were associated with some 564,258 deaths per year, disproportionately affecting children under 5, who are most sensitive to disruptions in healthcare or food. That's 1,544 deaths per day - for 30 years.

By contrast as of August 31st 2025, the UN has assessed a total of 14,116 civilian deaths in Ukraine [2], about 10 per day, in one of the largest land wars in quite some time, and one where military casualties are certainly in the millions. War will always be with us - it's simply the final stage of irreconcilable differences. But I think sanctions will go down as one of those things people look back at wondering how we could ever do that to each other. Again I think the parallel with random forms of torture before execution are apt. One can support the death penalty and be completely disgusted by drawing and quartering. It's just unnecessary sadism and cruelty that serves no purpose.

For some related comic relief I recommend this skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY

[1] - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain...

[coldtea]

>And I wrote that the US is at war with an enemy _state_

The US toppled it's democratically elected leader in the 50s, installed a brutal "king" dictator, and when they finally overthrew him it armed their neighborhood Iraq to wage war on them killing millions, then enforced global sanctions to it (causing tremendous damage to its economy and operation), and still meddles in the region.

Them saying some slogans like that is not even a blip on the radar, compared to the murderous shit the US has done to them for profit and spite.

The nerve for the US to play the victim here...

[simianparrot]

First off I'm not American, just to be clear. But I don't see the US playing the victim. They're involved in a conflict.

Iranians are playing victims, and they are, but they're victims to their own government's actions, being the foremost funder of anti-west terrorism and sentiment.

If they want things to change, I'd look at the closer threat -- their theocratic government.