[ioteg]

Nobody is "irrationally scared" of EVs. We are rationally scared that, once enough well-off people have switched to EVs, this market share will be used as an excuse to stop poor people from driving their petrol or diesel cars. ("Rationally" because this is already happening.)

[myrmidon]

> We are rationally scared that, once enough well-off people have switched to EVs, this market share will be used as an excuse to stop poor people from driving their petrol or diesel cars.

I don't think that is rational at all. Have you ever looked at vintage car regulations in Europe? There are none, basically-- if your car is old enough, neither accident nor emission mitigation/prevention are required at all.

Why would you expect that this is going to change?

[cdfsdsadsa]

Why would you expect things to stop changing?

For one, cars old enough to be without emissions or safety equipment are becoming more rare, to the point that they are now worth a significant amount of money. Anything that is currently in that grey, "pre-classic" area is already a very complicated machine that is very hard to maintain without OEM spares and support. Anything newer is designed from the ground up to hit a specified lifetime then get ground up into flakes for recycling. Opinions vary on the positive outcomes of this.

For two - regulations are constantly changing. Many cities have low-emissions zones. The EU is making significant changes to their vehicle end-of-life laws.

"Poor people" are not going to be maintaing classic old cars as a cheap form of transport, like some rose-tinted view of Cuba. They already lease brand-new cars.

[ioteg]

This is not true. ULEZ already exist and are mandatory from the EU in several cities of my country. (If your city has a population of more than X, you must implement a ULEZ.) People with 15 year old diesel cars can no longer drive in those cities. Exactly the same people who can't afford to change their cars. We are not talking “vintage” cars. We are talking poor people cars.

[Sankozi]

Where is it happening?

Where buying a car is really expensive? The only places that come in mind are those packed cities that require a parking place for a car. Nothing to do with EV.

[cdfsdsadsa]

>Where buying a car is really expensive?

Pretty much world-wide. The cost of new cars has risen several times faster than inflation for at least a few years now.

[Sankozi]

You don't have to buy a new car. Used ones are dirt cheap (soon this will include EV too).

[cdfsdsadsa]

Not sure about the situation where you live, but "dirt cheap" 2nd hand cars aren't a thing any more.

[saubeidl]

Why would that be a bad thing?

[FirmwareBurner]

So fuck the poor people, according to you?

[rmu09]

Europe is not the US, we have somewhat functional public transport in most parts of the continent, you are not _that_ dependent on a car. Also, EVs will become cheaper than ICEs, with or without subsidies or tax incentives, it's only a matter of time. Battery prices on a cell level approach €40/kWh. A new drive-train incl. battery will be < 2000€.

Also, given that polluted air affects poor people the most, getting rid of all that exhaust of old worn out cars with ICEs will be a good thing in any case.

[FirmwareBurner]

>Europe is not the US, we have somewhat functional public transport in most parts of the continent, you are not _that_ dependent on a car.

That's a case by case basis and not valid blanket-wide over everyone in every city on the whole continent. Outside of HN bubble, not everyone lives in big cities with high speed rail, underground subways or working remotely in small villages with amazing bicycle paths

A lot of tier 2 cities are heavily underdeveloped in that regard and need a car for commute to work outsider or inside the city, unless you wanna spend 1-2+ hours/day, each way, on public transit switching and waiting on buses since such cities sprawled out and grew in size a lot, but public transit infra is still stuck in the 90s with slow busses and no trains. Car ownership is still the only way you can have some free time between work, sleep and commute.

[ZeroGravitas]

Well if you think that EVs cost more to run than ICE and are generally worse cars then this would be a punishment for the poor.

Since they cost less to run and are generally better than the alternative, poor people will appreciate the step up just as everyone else does.