[mattgreenrocks]

Agree, the meat of the article is quite interesting. Also worth noting that, IMO, covid boosted the amount of engagement with the simulacrum (there was nothing else to do for many!), and people haven't weaned off of it. Algorithms will gradient-descend you into it very gradually, and you'll convince yourself you're just "looking for the truth."

Personally, I'm trying to cultivate more unmediated experiences as much as possible. The world and people aren't really attuned to this as much...to say nothing of my own inertia! But I do think they are an important component to both finding contentment and a sense of sustainable calm.

[viccis]

Have you read Simulacra and Simulation? I think it sounds like you are pursuing very wise choices, but the problem is that the precession of simulacra is unavoidable in modern society. Even the idea of trying to chase more off line unmediated experiences is a simulacral objective, an attempt at simulating a lifestyle that doesn't really exist now.

[dragonwriter]

> Even the idea of trying to chase more off line unmediated experiences is a simulacral objective, an attempt at simulating a lifestyle that doesn't really exist now.

No, if you live your real life doing things in a certain way that is a real lifestyle which actually exists by virtue of that fact.

Being consciously pursued does not make it some kind of fiction, and if someone writes in a book that it does it doesn’t change that the ways real people actually live their lives are, ipso facto, real lifestyles that exist, it just means the book is wrong.

(It may be pursued out of nostalgia or yearning for a past, foreign, or imagined lifestyle that no longer exists, cannot exist in the immediate local conditions, or never existed, and may not acheive the goals for which it is pursued, which may especially be true if those goals are things that the model lifestyle achieved for reasons related to aspects that are not replicated or of the context of the model lifestyle which are not present in the context of the real and present one, but that’s a different issue from whether the lifestyle is, in fact, a real one which exists.)

[viccis]

If you have to consciously modify habits to live in a "real" lifestyle, then that's a simulacrum. His definition of "real" is not "it exists".

For example, Baudrillard talks about the fact that the second a primitive society is discovered and efforts are made to ensure they are undisturbed and stay stuck in their primitive culture, that culture is now simulacral. (From SAS: "Of course, these savages are posthumous: frozen, cryogenized, sterilized, protected to death, they have become referential simulacra, and science itself has become pure simulation.")

>someone writes in a book that it does it doesn’t change that the ways real people actually live their lives are, ipso facto, real lifestyles that exist, it just means the book is wrong

I'm not making normative statements about your lifestyle, I'm clarifying terminology that's very very specific to the book Simulacra and Simulation, written by Baudrillard, which is what this post is about. If you want to use a different meaning for simulacrum than Baudrillard's, then that's fine, but it would be helpful to define it.

[mattgreenrocks]

> Have you read Simulacra and Simulation?

Not yet, I will put it on my book backlog.

> Even the idea of trying to chase more off line unmediated experiences is a simulacral objective, an attempt at simulating a lifestyle that doesn't really exist now.

100% agree. It is a tenuous balance. I try to see it as figuring out which mediated experiences are life-giving/neutral vs trying to recreate a past that is gone. Sometimes that involves plenty of tech (Death Stranding 2!) and sometimes it involves avoiding short-form videos entirely.

[viccis]

>Not yet, I will put it on my book backlog.

It's very good but be warned that it's very much written in the continental philosophy style, so it can come across as inscrutable to people not used to French 20th century philosophy at times.

>vs trying to recreate a past that is gone

The real challenge is that sometimes it's like this, which a simulation. But sometimes we're trying to recreate a past that never existed, and that's when it becomes simulacral.

[ajmurmann]

"Personally, I'm trying to cultivate more unmediated experiences as much as possible."

Do you mind sharing what strategies you've found useful in this regard and what hasn't worked well?

[mattgreenrocks]

Sure. Things with various degrees of success:

* meditation - IMO this gets me close to a headspace where I want to seek out more unmediated things

* practicing musical instruments

* phone calls with people instead of texting

* choosing the mundane versions of errands when time permits (grocery shopping in person instead of ordering via app and picking it up). There's a certain solace in the simplicity of mundane tasks that I need.

Less successful:

* getting outside more. This is pure inertia.

* quitting social media. BlueSky helps here by being much lower volume.