[PaulHoule]

You've got plenty of bacteria working for you (and sometimes against you) in your gut. Microbe-enhanced cement is a significant research topic. And the most plausible route to a chemical "factory factory" that space colonists would need to make middle and top-of-pyramid chemicals is a synthetic biology platform where you could make bespoke bacteria and yeasts that could make just about anything for you.

[siavosh]

I’m not sure if I’m joking or not, but the difference between your two examples is one of them is a choice and the other is not. Maybe we’re going to enter a new era of microorganism ethics (or morality?).

[roughly]

Microorganisms get interesting because they’re simple enough that we can see all the parts involved, but complex enough that we can see what looks like intentionality in their actions. We consider them Alive, but we also know all the mechanisms making them seem that way - there’s nowhere for the ghost to hide. They’re a fascinating case for ethics, especially since there’s effectively no way we could operate in this world without both relying on them and killing them in droves, because they’re also parts of the mechanism almost anywhere we look at biology. Hell, human cells are outnumbered 10:1 - by number, we’re outvoted.

[siavosh]

Yeah I think if ethics are involved it has to be based on intentions and hence choice. Accidentally stepping on a few million microorganisms is probably ethically ok. Building your civilization in the “enslavement” of gazzilions of microorganisms might be more ethically discussion worthy. I do wonder how plants are different than microorganisms if at all since obviously we farm and eat them.

[roughly]

With microorganisms it’s particularly interesting because the time and space scales are so different there’s no coherent narrative between humans and bacteria - it’d be like a species of sentient space nebulas seeding a promising planet with proto-humans so we’d eventually plant fruit trees there or something. In one sense, yes, if you were one of the eventual resulting humans, you’re the result of an alien species enslaving humans to do their bidding, but you’re living your entire life just generally doing what you’d do as a human totally unaware of your apparent enslavement and with no apparent restrictions on your movement or decision-space. I’m not an ethicist - anything that doesn’t involve the full consent of all parties gives me pause, but I’m not quite sure what the conversation there looks like.

[siavosh]

Well these humans would be totally ignorant of what’s going on but that I think would be besides the point because the space nebula would know what they’re doing!

[NonHyloMorph]

And then one of the space nebula decided to take the form of their creation. Thus it came down to earth to walk amongst them humans as one of them and this is how linus became benevolent dictator for life.

[cycomanic]

Plants are orders of magnitude more complex than microorganisms and we "intentionally kill/enslave" them in huge amounts. If you think it's ethically questionable to "enslave" microorganisms, what do you think of eating plant based food, and how do you propose we live?

[roughly]

It’s the fact that there’s no good answer that makes it a dilemma

[layla5alive]

The fact that you don't have an alternative other than suicide removes much of the dilemma..

[lazide]

How do the microbes in someone’s gut have a choice in the matter?

[siavosh]

I should have been more clear, I meant our choice as in we did not choose or coerce them to be in our gut but we would have chosen to use them in our civilization’s infrastructure.