[vincvinc]

Oh? I think the outrage over making the reader feel like "a bad or prejudiced person" that accompanies any invitation to challenge assumptions is so tedious.

How come this culture war mindset infuses everything we do online now?

Nowhere does this map or its description even imply you are a bad person.

It's pure ... projection

[Attrecomet]

"Deciding to put south, or north, at the top of maps is a decision of consequence. Psychologically, we tend to view things nearer the top as ‘good’ and those lower as ‘bad.’ This can influence our interpretation of maps at both global and local scales."

There it is, the implication that "North is up" is morally bad. Since it's an implication, it does not need to be read that way, but it's clearly there.

[buran77]

> Psychologically, we tend to view things nearer the top as ‘good’ and those lower as ‘bad.’

The oldest maps in the world and in Europe are oriented North at the top and the essential feature in the middle. For the Babylonians it was the Euphrates and Babylon itself. For the Europeans it was the Mediterranean. The implication that everyone sees up/North as better means that generations of Greek or Roman cartographers just accepted that the barbaric northernmost regions of Europe are "better", which is patently false.

Religions that use the cross as a holy symbol also use the Trinitarian formula (In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti, amen) while making the cross. God the Son is the second in the trinity but is put at the bottom of the cross, while God the Holy Spirit is the third yet sits higher. This is also deeply rooted in people's psychology.

So I am not convinced of your argument.

[antognini]

> The oldest maps in the world and in Europe are oriented North at the top

This isn't true, the oldest maps from the Middle Ages were oriented towards the East. (In fact the very word "orient" refers to the East.) The convention of putting north at the top is only a couple of centuries old.

[Aloisius]

The oldest world maps were drawn long before the Middle Ages.

The oldest known world map is the Babylonian Imago Mundi from around the 6th century BCE which has north at the top. Claudius Ptolemy's Geographia also specified north was at the top in 2nd century.

Historically, the prize position on a world map was not the top, but the center.

[buran77]

It wouldn't have killed you to look for something slightly older, seeing how I mentioned Babylon.

The oldest European map, of Greek origin, unsurprisingly has the Aegean at the center, and North pointing up.

Creativity historically played a part in drawing maps but the "up on the map is better" philosophy is rejected by the reality of the first documented maps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps

[taco_emoji]

No, the implication is that "North is up and up is good" is morally bad, and I find it really stupid to disagree with that.

[JadeNB]

> There it is, the implication that "North is up" is morally bad. Since it's an implication, it does not need to be read that way, but it's clearly there.

I see the statement that the decision of orientation might seem neutral but doesn't turn out that way, but I think reading it as making a moral judgment about any particular orientation might be a stretch. At most, I see it as advocating for the importance of seeing multiple orientations to be able to see the world from multiple perspectives.

[jvanderbot]

In this corner, evidence from the last decade of moralizing over minute historical choices ad nauseum, and in this corner, common sense literal readings in good faith.

These will never meet except in disagreement, and this thread is just more of that.

[Forgeties79]

They are probably responding to this:

>Deciding to put south, or north, at the top of maps is a decision of consequence. Psychologically, we tend to view things nearer the top as ‘good’ and those lower as ‘bad.’ This can influence our interpretation of maps at both global and local scales

I think they are certainly doing a lot of inferring here, but I wouldn't call it "pure projection."

[nathan_compton]

Nuclear pun.

[sunrunner]

The Gall of the commenter to exploit such a Goode opportunity.