[TulliusCicero]

For the consumer, maybe not, other than a delay of some years.

In terms of having the industry? Absolutely. How many other areas of "tech" has Europe basically punted on and ceded to Americans? Currently there's some gnashing of teeth across the pond for how there's no real European equivalent to the big US cloud providers (AWS, Azure, GCP).

[lillecarl]

There doesn't have to be an equivalent of everything, I wouldn't want to use US cloud because of price and governance. At most I use the "cloudy" services and rent "capacity" from a European provider, companies are fleeing the cloud. They're done subsidizing Amazon deliveries.

MobilEye and Mercedes works on self-driving, so does BMW. It's probably not Waymo quality, but just because there aren't cars on the (wide and car friendly) roads doesn't mean nothing is happening.

Meanwhile Europe has solid infrastructure for electricity (esp France), ASML has no competition, Carl Zeizz is world leading in optics, there's probably a Leica LIDAR in the Waymo cars... I mean while we're throwing pies and bringing up other markets..

My old boss was working on a project with Leica where he was working with some partner on self-driving industrial machines, they we're using Leica gear for collosion avoidance and such.

Europe doesn't need self-driving cars, we have alternative modes of transportation. Where it's needed (mines and industry) it's already there. And whatever modern car you're driving here has ADAS which helps make driving comforable.

[TulliusCicero]

Sorry, but this is clearly just cope.

Yes, it's fine to give up the lead in any one subsector, but Europe is so far behind in tech industries in general. It's not just cloud services or self driving cars, look at SpaceX and Starlink: Europe has no equivalent to either, and is many years from gaining one (I'm aware of some plans, but they're far away from being able to actually launch, and some are dubious besides).

Both major smartphones OSes? Run by American companies. Major desktop OSes? Two by American companies, one originally started by a Finn, who still manages it...and he moved to Oregon.

But you don't have to take an American's word for it, just read Mario Draghi's report. The man loves Europe, deeply understands the European economy, and has a whole lot to say: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draghi_report

[lillecarl]

So any b2c thing where you're going to abuse your customers is American, what an achievement!

There's no denying America has done good in some industries, but when it comes at the cost of societies weak I can't help but think it doesn't matter.

SpaceX and Starklink aren't very important to me, I don't know who they're important for except Ukraine, boat and RV owners.

The report says we must invest in electricity infrastructure, well sure so the dude compares against China and USA at the same time? Crumbling infrastructure is the definition of USA 2025.

The cope is American Exceptionalism, we're doing just fine even though we're fighting a unprofitable proxy-war and missed all those b2c investments to leech off humanity.

There's no desktop OS from Finland, that's a kernel and yes he's now American as you guys usually were better at finding ways to turn good into profit.

[dash2]

> The cope is American Exceptionalism, we're doing just fine even though we're fighting a unprofitable proxy-war and missed all those b2c investments to leech off humanity.

We are not doing just fine. We have low economic growth. We are unable to beat off Russia's attack on Ukraine without American help. Germany has crumbling infrastructure just as much or more than America. We have not contributed seriously to any important innovation wave since before... 2000? The invention of the PC?

[lillecarl]

Everything isn't about economic growth, quality of life is more important for people.

EU aren't able to fend off Russia because other countries can't participate properly in the war.

EU contributes significantly to very many important innovations, though you seem to have made up your mind.

[imperfect_blue]

Economic growth is a measure of how much goods and services are available to everyone. If that isn't improving, that means your quality of life is lower, ceteris paribus. It means you don't produce enough energy on your own are dependent on Russian gas. It means you don't have enough surplus to sustain a military.