[munksbeer]

> Does not not strike you as odd?

Not really. What struck me as odd was someone citing papers as evidence for their opinion that having children increases your happiness, when the papers drew no such conclusion.

It's great that it has worked out that way for you. Sadly, I have a different experience, but life happens. If this makes any difference to you, I don't know, but let's move on.

[somenameforme]

I cited the papers' data which are unquestionable, not the sociologists' opinions on why that data might be, which are extremely questionable.

I know you said you'd prefer to move on, but if you could share when/how things went south for you, that could be beneficial others to learn from, myself not the least.

[munksbeer]

>I cited the papers' data which are unquestionable, not the sociologists' opinions on why that data might be, which are extremely questionable.

You've added your own opinion on what the results might mean, and the message you're conveying is that the results support your opinion and that the actual researchers opinion is "extremely questionable".

I'll leave it to other readers to decide on how they interpret this. I know this is a bit of a silly side-track discussion, but as I say, I get triggered when I see people advocating having children as a means to happiness. I think this is careless, because children deserve to be brought into the world for the right reasons, and would be parents should be fully informed.

As you asked for my perspective, now having children, I can 100% say I was happier at every stage of my life until my first child was born. Some people just aren't compatible with the extreme stress and hardship of raising children, sad as this is for me to say. I wish I was you, and posting happily online that children have actually made my life so much better. Please don't mistake that as a lack of love for my children. I have learned what unconditional love means, how I would literally die for them, and I work daily to be the best dad I can be. I sometimes come home from work when they're in bed, asleep and curl up with them because I missed them so much during the day. But overall, it hasn't been good for my mental health and happiness. About 8 months in I had to go to therapy, because I didn't understand why I was not feeling what the online dads told me I should be feeling (eg. you). I ended up nearly suicidal and was medicated in the end. I have never come anywhere close to anything like that in my life before (and I'm in my 40s).

But the context here is important. Six years on and I also understand that our experience may not have been typical. We know that our eldest has some form of neurodivergence. Probably ADHD, since I was medicated for ADHD as a child. Possibly more on the ASD spectrum. He has extreme anger, extreme sensory issues, defiance, non-stop extreme meltdowns, and more. My wife and I are always at the end of our tether and our relationship is in the pits trying to figure out how we each deal with it. The youngest child is suffering because he needs attention, but our eldest is all consuming.

And we are not even having the worst time of it of the parents we know in our neighbourhood.

Please just remember, everyone is on their own journey, good or bad, but perhaps advocating children as a means to happiness is something to be more cautious about.

That said, amazing what it has done for your life, and best of luck with the journey!

[somenameforme]

It's difficult to see how the sociologists opinion could even possibly be valid given the data provided in the 2nd that non-parental couples do show the same psychological benefits, particularly for men, as parental couples. Though again, obviously this is on average.

We've definitely been fairly fortunate, or at least not unfortunate. Our youngest did go through a brief phase of colic and that was quite intense, moreso for the inability to help sooth him than for the effects itself. I can only imagine how it would have been if similar, let alone more intense, issues persisted. Thanks for sharing and I wish you and your family the best of luck going forward.