[zero_k]

I am happy they demonstrated how useful these devices are. Marking these as "disposable" is a kind of insanity. I recovered a few of them "disposed" (i.e. "randomly thrown away into") in an empty flower pot, and took out the LiPo batteries from them -- which are rechargeable, and have charge circuitry (non-trivial for LiPos). That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.

This is the opposite of repairability. We specifically made them impossible to reuse and refill. Makes my tinkerer (and eco-friendly) heart very sad.

[cluckindan]

There are reusable vapes and reputable stores carry only those, but they are generally many times more expensive than disposable vapes, which are favored by smugglers (profit margins) and underage users (price point and potential seizing by parent/teacher/police).

Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts.

[dpc050505]

My reusable vape cost like 15$. It's basically the same components as a disposable vape, except I can refill a pod and switch the pod if I burn the wick.

[cluckindan]

Well, lucky you, I guess? Here they are considered tobacco products and taxed as heavily as cigarettes. I think the cheapest models are around $50.

That amount buys 10-200 disposable vapes from China, depending on how much you order at once and whether you care about the quality. Meanwhile, street resale prices are about $20 per vape. Smuggler’s heaven.

The smugglers / bulk sellers do sell to school kids, who then resell to their friends and even online (telegram most probably). Seen so many teenagers walk over as a random car pulls up to exchange vapes for cash. Even seen a big time dealer arriving at a teenager’s house party in a new, expensive car with a trunk full of vapes, accompanied by muscle, talking about how many of each flavor the customer is going to buy.

Maybe things are better on the other side of the big puddle, even if it means the same things are sold quasi-legally.

[HaZeust]

>"Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts."

This feels like pure fearmongering, and it's not even believable when most people here grew up around cigarettes, dip, or vapes in secondary school throughout the decades, and the dynamic was never anything like what you’re describing. Nobody was getting shaken down for cigarette or vape debts by “organized crime.” It was usually just some older kid or significant other, ex-student, or friend with a hookup who’d buy a pack or device and resell at a small markup. Sometimes it was even just a straight favor.

Trying to paint disposable vapes as a gateway to mafia debt collection just doesn’t square with lived experience in the US. Plenty of us experimented with nicotine products when we were underage - or know someone who did, and while that had its own health and legal issues, coercion into crime to cover “nicotine debts” simply wasn’t part of it lol

--

More people get into organized crime from their local Wal-Mart denying their job application as their only realistic ways to make money from labor, than ever do from nicotine products

[cluckindan]

Not everyone lives in the US.

[HaZeust]

what country contradicts my statements? Where in this world is getting spotted a Geek Bar equate to a severe debt that requires crime to pay off? Absurd premise.

[cluckindan]

Obviously it isn’t about a single vape. A bulk dealer wants to get rid of stock as quickly as possible, so they don’t expect a payment up front. Say it’s a box of 200 vapes. Then, someone steals it from the teenage vape dealer. Now, the teenager is out $4k in income but expected to pay $1k to $2k to the bulk dealer. That kind of debt to organized crime balloons fast; there are no controls on the interest. After a month of non-payment the amount owed may exceed $10k. At that point, the teenager can easily be coerced to commit additional crimes, including but not limited to hard drugs and murder.

I’d like to stress that this is not hyperbole, such things are documented to happen.

[HaZeust]

The conversation was about a single vape, and casual use, in the first place.

And yeah, I bet that's happened before, just like I bet a day-trader who ran on margin has lost all of his savings, house, cars, and wages through garnishment. That doesn't mean it's how 99% of situations, even in trading on margin, goes.

Even as it relates to underage dealers - even the stupid ones, a very few amount of teens buy in bulk - let alone do it only to fail on sales and get coerced into crime for payback. Not to downplay, the old "ATL" story like that is definitely real shit for illicit drug selling. But for vapes/alcohol/sanctioned (but legal and readily-available) substances? C'mon now. The market's there, but the incentives for coercion (due to the commodities being readily-available) are not.

I'd sooner assume that a story like that is a teen that's making a BS "blame the system" excuse for the fact that they actually bought vapes in bulk, squared it away, wanted to make more money than that hustle could offer, and voluntarily graduated to higher crime on their own. Fair play if they pull the excuse off, though - they've got us talking about it.

[chucksmash]

What does somebody buying hundreds of vapes to resell and then having them stolen have to do with individual customers, which was the original premise?

[lyraphix]

Just made an account to call you on this ludicrous BS. Share the documentation if you're so sure it's out there!

[ThrowawayTestr]

Everything you said is wrong. Refillable vapes are around the same price as disposables and kids get them from gas station attendants that don't care. What's this about organized crime?

[cluckindan]

Not everyone lives in the US. In my country, disposable vapes are banned, so everyone selling or buying them is committing a crime.

[arminiusreturns]

Even in the US, selling to kids is illegal in most states, so the same issue applies: kid can't buy vape at store, kid goes to adult who is likely to be criminal to get them to buy for them, now kid is vulnerable to exploitation.

[protocolture]

Banning vapes is stupid. Its basically just handing a monopoly to organised crime.

[Eric_WVGG]

There's a pretty amazing video where a guy makes an entire functioning e-bike battery out of disposable vapes that he gathered around a music festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVp9T8f_W4

I can't fathom why disposables are legal. Really believed that the post-boomer generations actually gave a damn about waste.

[tonyhart7]

I like to start doing like this, but as you can see I'm like most people here don't have experience on electrical or electronic equipment

do you have an idea where I can start doing shit like this??? not up to professional of course but as a hobby where I don't need to electrocute myself would be nice

[ynoxinul]

Building an e-bike battery from some random trash is a terrible idea. You won't electrocute yourself, but you are very likely to burn down your house when one of these cells randomly decides to ignite.

[gnabgib]

There was a bit of discussion about that Frankenstein last year (it was a protest of sorts): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42045621

[epanchin]

They’re already illegal in places, eg UK

[userbinator]

"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.

But clearly they can be reused, so maybe it's better that they be thrown away by the unknowing, giving those who do know a source of cheap (as in free) electronics?