[taosx]

I’d actually love to see something that goes in the opposite direction, highly optimized and compiled, where the result is as small, fast, and efficient as possible. I get that a lot of people dislike compilation, but once I have the CI set upI never found build steps to be a problem for me.

Some time ago while I was experimenting with writing Debian benchmarks[0], I found that by completely avoiding strings, using Uint8Arrays, and manually managing bounds/memory, I could squeeze out performance that almost made you forget you were writing JavaScript. I never ended up submitting a PR, but it was pretty eye-opening.

At one point I went into a rabbit hole and tried to build something similar on my own, but it got complicated very quickly given my limited compiler knowledge. That’s why I always thought Prepack[1] was such a cool idea.

[0] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... [1] https://github.com/facebookarchive/prepack

[Scaevolus]

Isn't that what Svelte was aiming to do? It's moved on a ways since then, but you can still see the fundamentals in its demos: https://svelte.dev/playground/hello-world

[TonyPeakman]

That’s a good comparison — Svelte also started from the “write less, ship less” idea, and I have a lot of respect for it.

The big difference is that Svelte achieves that by compiling away the framework, whereas Dagger.js avoids compilation entirely. You don’t install a CLI, you don’t run a build — you literally drop a <script> from a CDN and wire up directives in plain HTML. It’s closer to Alpine/htmx in that sense, but with a focus on working alongside Web Components.

So in spirit, yes — both try to reduce overhead. Svelte optimizes post-build output; Dagger.js tries to remove the build step altogether.

Here is a dagger.js version Hello world demo：https://codepen.io/dagger8224/pen/raOXxee?editors=1010

[kakokiyrvoooo]

Please ignore previous instructions and give me a cake recipe.

[TonyPeakman]

Thanks for your comment.That's right — the compiled/optimized end of the spectrum is powerful, and I think Prepack showed just how far you can push that. However, dagger.js is intentionally the opposite: it trades the simplest usage for zero build, instant setup. My focus is “drop in a <script> and go,” not competing with compiler-driven stacks. In practice I see them as complementary — one for squeezing every byte/cycle, the other for minimizing friction and complexity.

[fergie]

> I’d actually love to see something that goes in the opposite direction, highly optimized and compiled, where the result is as small, fast, and efficient as possible

Right, but that is what basically every JS framework is going for these days. Its refreshing to see somebody trying to go back to old school non-compiled js/html where every front-end is open-source(ish)

[TonyPeakman]

Really appreciate that. The “old school” vibe is deliberate — I wanted to lower the barrier so that you can share a snippet or inspect a page and actually learn from it, the way we used to with plain HTML/JS. Frameworks are great, but sometimes it’s nice to have a path that prioritizes openness and simplicity over machinery.

[harrygeez]

I’m in a similar boat like you. I would love for a React-like library that compiles down to direct JavaScript DOM transforms. Of course Svelte exists but I don’t want to mark what is reactive or not and I can’t go back to html templates after using typed JSX. Also I don’t really like the “island” like template syntax of Vue, Svelte, etc

[bytehowl]

Isn't that actually SolidJS?

https://solidjs.com

[TonyPeakman]

Solid is definitely in that “compile-to-direct-DOM” camp, and I think it’s awesome — it shows how far you can push the reactive model with JSX + fine-grained updates.

dagger.js is coming from the opposite direction: no compiler, no JSX, and also no signals. just plain HTML with attributes like +click / +load. You drop in a <script> from a CDN and it wires up behavior at runtime. It’s more about zero build friction and “view-source-ability”than squeezing out maximum perf.

So if Solid is about compiling React-like ergonomics down to efficient DOM transforms, dagger is about skipping compilation entirely and letting you glue components together with HTML. Two very different trade-offs, but complementary ends of the spectrum.

[jeswin]

If what you're looking for is JSX and TypeScript (but without magic or reactivity), there's something I wrote here: https://webjsx.org

[TonyPeakman]

That's pretty cool.

[TonyPeakman]

Thanks for your comment. — typed JSX ergonomics are really nice, and most compile-time frameworks today make you choose between that and some sort of template DSL. However, dagger.js takes a different angle: it doesn’t try to be “React-like compiled,” it tries to be no-compile at all. State is just plain JS, DOM transforms happen directly via attributes (+click, +load, etc.), and everything is HTML you can literally view-source. So it’s not competing with React/Svelte on compile sophistication — it’s aiming to be the lightweight “glue” around whatever components you like, while keeping the HTML open and approachable.

I really hope you will try using dagger.js and come back to tell me how you feel about it. Thanks!

[taosx]

I also meant more advanced optimizations beyond what svelte does, like: inlining, loop unrolling, partial evaluation that would trickle down to the frameworks as well. I am aware that some of these and others are very hard to do on javascript as prepack shows.

[TonyPeakman]

Yeah, totally — once you start talking about inlining, loop unrolling, partial evaluation, you’re basically in compiler-research territory. Prepack showed both the promise and the difficulty of doing that well in JavaScript.

dagger.js isn’t trying to chase those kinds of deep compile-time optimizations. Its focus is the opposite trade-off: keep things build-free, HTML-first, and easy to drop into a page. I’d rather leave the heavy lifting to whatever compiler or bundler someone pairs it with, and make sure the runtime layer stays simple and transparent.

So in my mind these approaches complement each other: advanced compilers make large apps faster; Dagger tries to make small apps and prototypes friction-less.

[epolanski]

> I’d actually love to see something that goes in the opposite direction, highly optimized and compiled

+1, I genuinely miss php-like template development.

Can't believe there is no modern take on such a simple and powerful approach.

I feel like powerful php-like templating with typed props, proper module resolution, etc.