[tarruda]

My only concern is this: Android phones I tried to root so far will be "tainted" if I unlock the bootloader and can never go back to a state where it passes all checks.

I'm okay with losing access to Google wallet while using Graphene os (I can just use plain old credit cards), but I would like to have the option to revert it in the future.

[scrlk]

Pixel devices don't have anything like the Samsung Knox eFuse, which blows after running a third-party bootloader.

[j4hdufd8]

Where are you getting this information? For what it is worth, Wikipedia mentions the Pixel 6 on the eFuse page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFuse

Myself I have not reverse engineered the Titan M2 security chip, but surely it uses eFuse or OTP memory for anti rollback protection mechanisms and such.

These are really basic hardware security primitives. I'm curious why you're under the impression Pixels wouldn't use eFuse.

[Andromxda]

> For what it is worth, Wikipedia mentions the Pixel 6 on the eFuse page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFuse

The Pixel 6 is only mentioned in regards to anti-rollback protection. This has nothing to do with unlocking and later relocking the bootloader. Pixels have always supported relocking the bootloader with a custom root of trust, i.e. custom AVB signing keys used by a custom, user-installed operating system.

https://source.android.com/docs/security/features/verifiedbo...

[j4hdufd8]

The Pixel 6 is mentioned specifically about eFuses which is the technical detail that caught my attention in this thread.

> The Xbox 360, Nintendo Switch, Pixel 6 and Samsung Galaxy S22 are known for using eFuses this way.[8]

Anti-rollback protection is a security feature, eFuses are hardware primitives that can be used to implement it. Bootloader locking is another security feature that can be implemented with eFuses.

If you have any data denying the use of eFuses in the Pixel 6, please share it, that is what I was interested in this sub-thread. I really did not understand the relevance and the correctness of your comment.

[Andromxda]

I had the same misunderstanding of your comment, as this other commenter https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45256978

I thought you claimed that Pixels also used eFuses to disable certain features after unlocking the bootloder once, like Samsung devices do. That's why I pointed out that Pixel devices have always had support for relocking the bootloader with a custom root of trust.

Your response to this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45244933 made it seem that way, because you appeared to disagree that "Pixel devices don't have anything like the Samsung Knox eFuse, which blows after running a third-party bootloader".

I guess that was a misunderstanding.

[j4hdufd8]

I appreciate the clarification, thank you :) I'm glad we're on the same page. Always curious to learn new details from others, hence my insistence heh

[scrlk]

You mentioned devices being irreversibly "tainted" after unlocking the bootloader.

On Samsung devices, blowing the Knox eFuse permanently disables features tied to Knox (e.g. Samsung Pay, Secure Folder). ("can never go back to a state where it passes all checks")

Pixels do not have an equivalent eFuse that permanently disables features (discounting the ability to flash previous versions of Android). Restoring stock firmware and relocking the bootloader will give you a normal Pixel.

[j4hdufd8]

I was purely focusing on whether or not it uses eFuses, literally, which it 100% absolutely does. I was not making any other such claims.

Indeed it may be true today that "restoring stock firmware and relocking the bootloader will give you a normal Pixel", I completely understand what you mean.

But that is NOT the same thing as "Pixels do not have eFuses to flag devices that have been modified before". Please share data supporting this claim if you have it.

It is possible that existing Pixels have such eFuses that internally flag your device (perhaps bubbling up to the Google Play Integrity APIs) but they don't kill device features per Google's good will.

My question is 100% about the hardware inside the Titan M2 and how it is used by Google. I don't think the answer is public, and anyone who has reverse engineered it to such detail won't share the answer either.

[strcat]

> My only concern is this: Android phones I tried to root so far will be "tainted" if I unlock the bootloader and can never go back to a state where it passes all checks.

There's no such thing for Pixels, and it also doesn't void the manufacturer warranty.