[jmcphers]

A simple test for aphantasia that I gave my kids when they asked about it is to picture an apple with three blue dots on it. Once you have it, describe where the dots are on the apple.

Without aphantasia, it should be easy to "see" where the dots are since your mind has placed them on the apple somewhere already. Maybe they're in a line, or arranged in a triangle, across the middle or at the top.

[brotchie]

When reading "picture an apple with three blue dots on it", I have an abstract concept of an apple and three dots. There's really no geometry there, without follow on questions, or some priming in the question.

In my conscious experience I pretty much imagine {apple, dot, dot, dot}. I don't "see" blue, the dots are tagged with dot.color == blue.

When you ask about the arrangement of the dots, I'll THEN think about it, and then says "arranged in a triangle." But that's because you've probed with your question. Before you probed, there's no concept in my mind of any geometric arrangement.

If I hadn't been prompted to think / naturally thought about the color of the apple, and you asked me "what color is the apple." Only then would I say "green" or "red."

If you asked me to describe my office (for example) my brain can't really imagine it "holistically." I can think of the desk and then enumerate it's properties: white legs, wooden top, rug on ground. But, essentially, I'm running a geometric iterator over the scene, starting from some anchor object, jumping to nearby objects, and then enumerating their properties.

I have glimpses of what it's like to "see" in my minds eye. At night, in bed, just before sleep, if I concentrate really hard, I can sometimes see fleeting images. I liken it to looking at one of those eye puzzles where you have to relax your eyes to "see it." I almost have to focus on "seeing" without looking into the blackness of my closed eyes.

[rimprobablyly]

Exactly my experience too. These fleeting images are rare, but bloody hell it feels like cheating at life if most people can summon up visualisations like that at will.

[theshrike79]

Watching someone clearly just transfer what's in their mind to a drawing is just jaw-dropping to me.

Like they'll start at an arm and move along filling the rest of the body correctly the first time. No sketching, no finding the lines, just a human printer.

[derektank]

I can't recall it ever being useful outside of physics and geometry questions tbh

[brisky]

I think I have it as well. But my theory is that we might have imagination but it is only accessible to subconscious. It is as if it is blocked from consciousness. I have ADHD as well, might be that this is protection mechanism that allows my kind of brain to survive in the world better (otherwise it would be too entertaining to get lost in your own imagination). As a kid I used to daydream a lot.

[typpilol]

I've come to realize that's how they all are.

No one really sees 3d pictures in their head in HD

[hamdingers]

I'm a 5 on the VVIQ. I can see the 3D apple, put it in my hand, rotate it, watch the light glint on the dimples in the skin, imagine tossing it to a close friend and watch them catch it, etc.

It's equally astonishing to me that others are different.

[typpilol]

You close your eyes and see exactly what you would on a TV with your eyes open?

[hamdingers]

I don't need to close my eyes, it doesn't make much of a difference, and I see what my eyes would see. It doesn't look like a TV unless I imagine a TV and put the image on the screen.

[typpilol]

They doesnt answer my question.

Do you see these pictures the same as if you were watching an HD TV?

I'm going to guess no. You don't see literally high def pictures in your head.

[Workaccount2]

I can see I my head with ~80% the level as seeing with my eyes. It's a little tunnel visiony and fine details can be blurry, but I can definitely see it. A honeycrisp apple on a red woven placemat on a wooden counter top. The blue dots are the size of peas, they are stickers in a triangle.

It not just images either, it's short videos.

What's interesting though is that the "video" can be missing details that I will "hallucinate" back in that will be incorrect. So I cannot always fully trust these. Like cutting the apple in half lead to a ~1/8th slice missing from one of the halves. It's weird.

[voidUpdate]

I absolutely do. For example, when I'm playing D&D, or listening to a podcast of other people playing D&D, I can "see" a fully realistic view of what is happening in my head. With the apple test, I can see a nice red apple, with the little vertical orange streaks, three blue dots arranged in a triangle, and I can rotate the apple in my head and have the dots move as you would expect from a real apple. I have a very vivid imagination

[theshrike79]

Talk to people who read a lot.

There are people who actually "see" a full-ass movie in their head when they read.

These are also the people who get REALLY angry when some live-action casting choice isn't exactly like in the book. I just go "meh", because I kinda remember the main character had red hair and a scar and that's it. :D

[rimprobablyly]

full ass movie?

[Geee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5aKNAcU2I&rco=1

[theshrike79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0Z1yq-2FQ

[marak830]

Welcome to the aphantasia club. We would make signs for our next meeting, but no one's come up with a good design yet :s

You may notice when doing the apple test, once you try and define a texture, your brain adding things you think should be there.

Scared the crap out of me a few years ago when I realized I had it. Came to grips with it now.

[Sohcahtoa82]

After reading your first sentence, I immediately saw an apple with three dots in a triangle pointing downwards on the side. Interestingly, the 3 dots in my image were flat, as if merely superimposed on an image of an apple, rather than actually being on an apple.

How do people with aphantasia answer the question?

[sheepscreek]

I guess it's a spectrum with varying abilities. If you ask me, I can see a red apple - or a photo of a red apple precisely. It's not in 3D though, I cannot imagine it from other angles so I cannot image the dots around it. But if I were to sit in a quiet and dark room without any distractions, and tried concentrating super hard (with my eyes closed), then I would be able to see it as other can. Perhaps even manipulate it in my mind.

Then maybe, at least in my case, it is my inability to focus my imagination when my senses are already being bombarded with external stimuli. But I cannot speak for anyone else.

[foofoo12]

I found out recently that I have aphantasia, based on everything I've read. When you tell me to visualize, I imagine. I don't see it. An apple, I can imagine that. I can describe it in incomprehensibly sparse details. But when you ask details I have to fill them in.

I hadn't really placed those three dots in a specific place on the apple. But when you ask where they are, I'll decide to put them in a line on the apple. If you ask what color they are, I'll have to decide.

[mitthrowaway2]

I'm pretty sure I don't have aphantasia. I don't see the apple either; it doesn't occupy any portion of my visual field and it doesn't feel similar to looking at an image of an apple. There's more of a ghostly, dreamlike image of an apple "somewhere else" whose details I only perceive when I think about them, and fade when I pay less attention. But the sensation of this apparition is a visual one; the apple will have an orientation, size, shape, and colour in the mental image, which are defined even if they're ghostly, inconsistent, and change as I reconsider what the apple should look like.

[brotchie]

+1, spot on description of aphantasia.

[yoz-y]

For me the hard question to answer is whether I have aphantasia because people describing “actually seeing” things like with their eyes is an absolutely wild concept.

To answer the question I imagine an apple with three dots in a triangle, closely together. There is no color because there is no real image, it’s just an idea. As other have said if prompted the idea gets more detailed.

That said, when I tried to learn building mind palaces it has worked. I can “walk through” places I know just fine, even recall visual details like holes in a letterbox. But again, there is no image.

[jvanderbot]

They may not answer but what they'll realize is that the "placing" comes consciously after the "thinking of" which does not happen with others.

That is, they have to ascribe a placement rather than describe one in the image their mind conjured up.

[sunrunner]

How fair is it to ask people to self report whether details existed in their original image before or after a second question? Does the second question not immediately refine the imagined image? Or is that the point, that there’s now a memory of two different apple states?

Edit: This iDevice really wants to capitalise Apple.

[jvanderbot]

This is not a scientific study it is an introspection tool. Sibling comment shows how useful it is.

[wrs]

There's no apple, much less any dots. Of course, I'm happy to draw you an apple on a piece of paper, and draw some dots on that, then tell you where those are.

[aaronblohowiak]

oh just close your eyes and imagine an apple for a few moments, then open your eyes, look at the wikipedia article about aphantasia and pick the one that best fits the level of detail you imagined.

[dom96]

So my mind briefly jumps to an apple and I guess I am very briefly seeing that the dots happen to be on top of the apple, but that image is fleeting.

I have had some people claim to me that they can literally see what they are imagining as if it is in front of them for prolonged periods of time, in a similar way to how it would show up via AR goggles.

I guess this is a spectrum and it's tough to dealineate the abilities. But I just looked it up and what I am describing is hyperphantasia.

[gcanyon]

For me the triggering event was reading about aphantasia, and then thinking about how I have never, ever, seen a movie about a book I've read and said, "that [actor|place|thing] looks nothing like I imagined it" Then I tried the apple thing to confirm. I have some sense of looking at things, but not much.

[Agraillo]

It's a great aspect to evaluate (fiction books/movies), thanks for mentioning it. I think it's much easier to use as an evaluation tool than techniques like the apple example. One of the tests, for example, is to recall a book that you have never seen a movie adaptation of and try to remember the characters and scenes. For me, in these cases (when I try to recall), the characters appear faceless, while places are more detailed, but they usually remind me of some real places I have encountered before in my life.

It's interesting that if non-aphantasia people are so common, I wonder why so few paintings have scenery based solely on imagination. I even remember asking a person who paints (not in the context of this condition) how hard it was for him to paint something not directly before his eyes, but from imagination, and why he didn't do it more often. I recall that he definitely did this (painting from imagination) rarely or not at all, and the question really puzzled him

[sunrunner]

Follow up question for people now doing this, what colour was the apple? (Given that there was no colour in the prompt for the apple, only the dots)