[zwnow]

Professional joy does not matter. Do not make your job your life. Family matters, personal goals matter, professional goals however do not. When my father had cancer the only question his employer ever asked was "when is he coming back to work? We need him here". He passed not long after. Your work does not care about you, no matter if its a corporation or a tiny business. If your personal goal is to be a professional at your job making as much money as possible, honestly, that's just sad.

[mlyle]

You spend a third of your life at work. Better for it to be something you can enjoy and be proud of than not.

Or, from another lens:

My father was an awesome man, and incredible to his family-- and he went on an incredible personal journey with IBM doing cool stuff that he thought was meaningful as part of that, bringing back stories to his family.

(Like making one of the earliest computerized large industrial control system, to automate a cement plant... and the shenanigans that he and his work friends got up to during this time. Or how much he liked the 650, and what an interesting puzzle it was to try and make a fast program. Or indeed, even the things he failed at: at their programming school he was not good with the accounting special-purpose plugboard machines).

Or-- from mine: I won the startup lottery at 22 and "retired" but that did not last long. I am not a happy person without purposeful work. And I am a better person in my family by virtue of that purposeful work.

[vkou]

> Better for it to be something you can enjoy and be proud of than not.

That is obviously true.

Which means that as a society, we utterly fail at this. By design, some asshole above you who is trying to optimize your franchise's or department's KPIs will inevitably take every bit of joy you might derive from work, and optimize it away.

If you are happy with your work, anytime the hiring market weakens, that's a great reason to squeeze more out of you/lower your relative pay. If you are passionate about doing something, that's a great reason to make you a worse offer than they would to someone who doesn't care. If you aren't hitting some indicator that's believed to be incredibly important by someone six corporate levels above you, and your line manager is just a powerless drone with no real agency of their own, prepare to get written up.

An individual can walk away from any particular bad situation there - but the overwhelming majority of jobs across the economy are not ones that will avoid all of this. By definition, most people working will not be able to 'enjoy their work'.

You can win a round of musical chairs, but the players as a whole can't.

[radlad]

Professional joy usually doesn't come from making as much money as possible. It comes from creating work that you are proud of, doing the best of your abilities, or making a difference in others' lives - were I Greg Kellogg, I would find my career at W3C rewarding too.

[moron4hire]

It's possible to enjoy work and make time for family, too. It can be difficult to find such a job, but it's worth the effort.

I've found having a good job that I enjoy is a significant factor in me being emotionally available to my family. Work doesn't have to be a combative relationship between employee and employer.

Though I do think it's a bit easier to find outside of the tech industry. You can still be doing software development, just don't do it at a software company. Especially any place that has at any time claimed they are trying to "change the world".

[zwnow]

I am lucky enough to work for a friend of mine and I like the job. Its not fulfilling though. I can pretty much work on whatever I currently want as long as it supports the business but its all meaningless. I'd find joy in working on something that can actually help people in a meaningful way. Working on event tickets and cashless payment isn't really that...

[southernplaces7]

Professional joy can be about a lot more than just making as much money as possible. If anything is sad it's that someone fails to understand this basic thing. We're thinking, often fantastically creative beings, and our lives need not focus only on family, love and friends. They can also be partly absorbed by our external pursuits, professionally, as an outlet for all that cognitive power inside us.

Should the creator of the WWW be sad that it gave him joy? Or the scientists who programmed the Apollo missions, because they also made money off these things or worked for others while doing so at times? Or in a different direction, should a Picasso or Anthony Hopkins not take enormous pleasure from a life time of professional creation? Much more banal examples are just as valid, as long as they gave sincere happiness to those living them.

What a bizarrely narrow definition you have of professional joy.

[zwnow]

Should the people who built Palantir be proud of their work? Or the people who built Amazons employee surveillance?

[southernplaces7]

What an idiotic whataboutism that has nothing to do with my main point. Because people who work for morally ambiguous projects might also be proud of their professional work, nobody working on anything else should be? Or what are you saying, because it seems a bit muddled.

Also, to answer specifically to these folks, maybe they shouldn't be morally, but if it made them personally proud, as far as quality of life FOR THEM personally goes, it's still a valid example. Morality and personal happiness aren't always directly connected in some people.

[mablopoule]

Passion, drive, and existential fulfillment can take many form, and "professional joy" can absolutely be one of them.

It's not about drinking the corporate kool-aid, but about taking pride in what you've put in the world (even potentially as a hobby), having a sense of craftsmanship, or even maintaining a certain work ethic.

Even the "making money" part can be tied to a very deep sense of providing for your loved ones, and a sense of personal responsibility.

[googlryas]

I'm pretty sure everyone gets to choose what makes them happy. Sorry, I guess, if criticizing the life choices of a dead person are what makes you happy.

[toomuchtodo]

I did not take it as criticizing, but holding it up as an example of a life well lived. TLDR "The work won't love you back, pay attention to what can be learned from Gregg's life experience he shared." Certainly, seek out meaningful work, but prioritize loving relationships over it.

> "I have been unbelievably lucky in life, and particularly in my relationship with Rebecca."

(i strongly agree with this, fwiw, based on the data collected about regrets when people approach death [1]; also, we should take the life lessons from someone who has passed as a gift, with value to help us live more full lives with the time we have left)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Top_Five_Regrets_of_the_Dy...

[seabass-labrax]

Full disclosure: I haven't read the book myself. Logically, however, expressing regrets does not say anything about whether a specific course of action is better. By definition, one can only regret living one's life in a certain way if one actually did - so perhaps a high incidence of people regretting "working too hard" is simply indicative of working a lot being the most common experience, rather than any special reason why a life spent working should be regrettable.

And back to Gregg - he's personally been an inspiration to me. Who would I be to question his life choices, but I for one am grateful for the path he did choose to take.

[stuff4ben]

That's a pretty privileged take there. No, not everyone gets to choose what makes them happy when they have obligations to others or even to themselves if they want to eat that night or not. Glad you do, but don't assume everyone does.

[rpsw]

I think that is a misrepresentation of what the parent was saying. OP is not suggesting everyones gets to do what makes them happy, but rather they are free to say what is important for their happiness, even if others disagree.

[ameliaquining]

This seems like a misreading of the comment. Anyone can choose for themself what matters to them, which is a different question from to what extent you can get everything you want without compromises.

[jahsome]

It's hilarious this is being blasted. People on this website are so sadly out of touch and misguided.

[el_benhameen]

Consider that it’s possible for other viewpoints to be valid for many people. I don’t think folks are “blasting” the GP because they’re all blind careerists; I think it’s because it discounts alternative points of view rather flippantly.

I’ve chosen to focus on my family at the expense of career progression and additional income. I don’t think my work would be more than half a sentence in my obituary. But I like what I do for work and I get a type of satisfaction from it that’s different from what I get in my personal life. I’m happy with that.

[jahsome]

The issue isn't with "liking" what one does for work, the issue is with making one's career integral to their personality.

[southernplaces7]

People are sadly out of touch and misguided for scorching an absurdly narrow definition of professional joy that categorizes all manifestations of it as the same stupid thing? Really?

None of the millions of people throughout history who have enjoyed a creative outlet for their cognitive abilities also involve professional work should be proud or happy about the things they made because someone might think they're sad, misguided, exploited fools?

[jahsome]

That's what we in the biz call a whole lot of straw men!