[twinsnes]

Not true, with a $1200 ($800 renewal) msdn subscription "Visual Studio Professional with MSDN" you should have access to 5 copies of every operating system and server software + professional versions of all Visual studio packages.

[martey]

The EULA for MSDN subscriptions prohibits using them in a production environment: http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/MSDN%20Subs...

[seanmcdirmid]

Well, there is DreamSpark...

I'm not sure why anyone would think MS uses only their own OS for everything. Microsoft has been known to use other OS's in the past (the website used to run on Solaris right?), and we do have designers with macs (beyond just the team that does MacOffice, of course). Eat the dog food but don't drink the kool aid, anyways.

[bad_user]

      Well, there is DreamSpark...

DreamSpark is again, for non-commercial use. You're probably referring to Bizspark / Webspark.

And it's far from ideal to go this route.

To get accepted into the program, you first have to start a company. As a lone developer that just wants to try stuff out and see what sticks, dealing with such bureaucracy is far from ideal - of course, in the US you can start a company probably in a couple of hours, but many in the rest of the world are not so lucky.

Then you need to apply by describing what you intend to do with it. If you have an idea for a project you have to describe it in detail, including the business plan, otherwise you can get rejected. And people have been rejected.

And then, assuming you did the above and got accepted, the *Spark programs are a ticking time bomb. When it's over, it's over. You can keep whatever software you have on your desktop already installed, but then you do have to license whatever software you're using in production (SQL Server, Windows Server).

Again, I'm mainly speaking from the point of view of someone that has a day job and that would like to try stuff out. Skipping over the fact that if you tell them you have a day job, you probably won't get accepted, it can take a lot of time to start earning money from what you're doing and thus afford those licenses at the end of the program. And it's not like successful businesses haven't been built this way.

So I just don't get why would somebody be willingly getting into this, when many companies and individuals succeeded by using the free and open-source alternatives, which personally I find technically superior.

[seanmcdirmid]

Sorry, yes, I was thinking about BizSpark. And your point is very reasonable, which is why tools like Visual Studio Express are very important.

[InclinedPlane]

This is an amusing digression but it doesn't change the point. At any other company the size of Microsoft the cost of installing a high-end Windows OS or a server runs into the many thousands of dollars and would normally be a very convoluted process to install. Within MS it takes all of a matter of seconds, everyone there is protected from one of the biggest pain points of using MS software, which I think is a pretty significant problem.

[brudgers]

If this is really a problem, it applies to other companies commonly praised on HN, such as 37Signals. I suspect that the alternative of charging the street price of software off against internal budgets would be a more significant problem and garner pecks of criticism on HN.