[bwb]

I have not seen any solutions by either the left or the right that mathematically solve it. In fact, the last time I checked, the far right was advocating for a lower retirement age and increased spending.

The left seems to want things we all want, but we're unsure how to afford them. They never seem to have math to back it up as taxes can only go up so much, and they are already some of the highest as a percentage of GDP in the world.

Can you point me to a real proposed solution by either side?

[fngjdflmdflg]

>[Taxes] are already some of the highest as a percentage of GDP in the world.

Is this the right metric: "Tax revenue (% of GDP)"?[0]

If so, France ranks 28 at 23.1% of GDP. The highest non-island developed country is Denmark at 31.4%. Denmark's GDP per capita is 1.5x France. New Zeland's GDP per capita is similar to France and their GDP to tax rate is 29.6% which is the fifth highest. Does New Zeland face similar problems as France? I think I agree with your implication that simply increasing the tax to GDP ratio is not a magic bullet.

In general, the data here is really interesting. Germany and the US have a pretty similar value, both averaging at about 11% in recent years. I would have assumed that Germany would have a higher rate. I wonder if this data is misleading somehow or if my assumptions were just wrong here. I guess one variable missing here is government debt, which is not a tax but is still used to pay for government expenses.

[0] Global: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?most_...

France over time: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?most_...

[vladvasiliu]

I'm not familiar with the situation of New Zealand with respect to Australia (its neighbours). But the problem in the EU, is that there are a few countries (Ireland and the Netherlands inside the Union, and Switzerland which is right next door and enjoys many advantages and no constraints) which charge way less tax than the "central" EU countries. So companies have a tendency to set up their HQs in those countries.

I'm not one to cheer for absurd taxation (which is a French specialty), but I understand why this setup does ruffle some feathers in France.

[disgruntledphd2]

> I'm not familiar with the situation of New Zealand with respect to Australia (its neighbours). But the problem in the EU, is that there are a few countries (Ireland and the Netherlands inside the Union, and Switzerland which is right next door and enjoys many advantages and no constraints) which charge way less tax than the "central" EU countries. So companies have a tendency to set up their HQs in those countries.

Speaking as an Irish person, this is definitely true and tax is a big reason for a lot of the multinationals we have here.

However, also note that the Irish people have one the highest debt per capita, basically incurred to pay off debts to EU/UK banks during the financial crisis. If you mutualise debt, and do the capital markets union then you could 100% fix this (but the political will definitely isn't there for that).

[nwellnhof]

The 11% number for Germany (and probably the whole table) is completely wrong. I guess it only shows federal taxes which are about 40% of all taxes including state and municipal taxes. So total taxes are roughly 24% of German GDP.

[fngjdflmdflg]

Ah, I did wonder how state level taxes were being accounted for, seems like the answer is they aren't. I guess I could have looked that up before posting. The values here[0] are markedly different. It shows Germany at 45%, France at 51.53%, US at 29.21% and Denmark at 50%. So I was way off the mark there, although I did think something seemed very off with those numbers. France is the 10th highest in the world, with many of the countries above it being tiny island countries or countries with vast oil reveres relative to their size like Norway and Kuwait. With this being the case, it does seem hard to imagine that more taxes will fix everything.

[0] Government revenue, percent of GDP - https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/rev@FPP/

Also relevant: Government expenditure, percent of GDP - https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/

[disgruntledphd2]

> In general, the data here is really interesting. Germany and the US have a pretty similar value, both averaging at about 11% in recent years. I would have assumed that Germany would have a higher rate. I wonder if this data is misleading somehow or if my assumptions were just wrong here. I guess one variable missing here is government debt, which is not a tax but is still used to pay for government expenses.

Lots of German spending is devolved to the regions, maybe your figures are missing that?

[concinds]

The correct number is 48%, not 23%. I doubt even the US is that low.

[bwb]

In 2023, France’s tax-to-GDP ratio was 43.8%, the highest among the 38 OECD countries.

[imtringued]

Here is the solution:

https://www.dieter-suhr.info/files/luxe/Downloads/Suhr_Struc...

https://www.dieter-suhr.info/files/luxe/Downloads/Suhr-Godsc...

The transaction cost approach means that the profit motive isn't a barrier either. If anything, you can make money off of solving the problem. That in itself is probably the ultimate proof that communism is wrong, because it turns communism into a self-hating ideology. Imagine being a communist controlling 1/3 of the world and deciding that you would rather see your "empire" crumble rather than convert the last 2/3 through irresistible persuasion/temptation. Not just that, but you literally start a campaign against the idea of doing so. You'd rather doom yourself than admit being a little bit wrong for even more power.