[ajross]

> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS

It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about?

Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key".

And the "level 2 ADAS" business is a transparent attempt to troll an FSD argument to which won't engage except to say, again, that the user experience of letting your car drive a 200 mile leg of a long road trip is also not remotely the same as always bouncing around and stomping on brakes experience of the lanekeeping offered elsewhere.

You know both of these truths, which is why you want to redefine the features to make them false.

[kube-system]

>> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS

> It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about?

Most non-luxury brands offer these features today. Toyota Camry, for instance.

> Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key".

1. You didn't say anything about doing it with a phone. 2. If you do want to do it with a phone, for whatever reason, other automakers also offer this, e.g.:

https://connected-mobility.hyundai.com/what-we-do/connected-...

https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/fordpass/phone-as-a-key...

> And the "level 2 ADAS" business is a transparent attempt to troll an FSD argument to which won't engage except to say, again, that the user experience of letting your car drive a 200 mile leg of a long road trip is also not remotely the same as always bouncing around and stomping on brakes experience of the lanekeeping offered elsewhere.

You shouldn't be taking your hands off the wheel while using systems that require your hands to be on the wheel. Other automakers have hands-free level 2 systems. Here's the list of brands that currently offer a hand-free level 2 system: BMW, Ford, Lincoln, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Jeep, Ram, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Infiniti, Toyota, Lexus

> You know both of these truths, which is why you want to redefine the features to make them false.

I think maybe you're just not aware of what is on the market right now.

[ajross]

Now you're playing games with "offer". I've never once seen a Camry with cameras. I'm sure it's on a trim somewhere, but not on dealers lots or at a price people want to pay.

Look, the simple ground truth is that the experience of driving a four year old Tesla (the age of my Y) is simply better than any vehicle I'm going to find anywhere at that price point or lower (or give a bit for inflation, even).

> You shouldn't be taking your hands off the wheel while using systems that require your hands to be on the wheel.

Sigh. I said I wouldn't be trolled[1], but it's a camera-based attention monitoring system now. There's no requirement for the hand on the wheel (well, it will yell at you if it sees you duck out of the camera center and you need a physical input to acknowledge), and hasn't been for more than a year.

The "car gets new features years after purchase" thing is another point in favor, FWIW.

Look, you're just wrong on this. You'll never believe that, because you'll never drive a Tesla. But I do, and I'm right.

[1] You also played the "level 2" game again, pretending that one number defines the feature set when you know very well it does not. That now has moved from "trolling" to simple lying, I'd say.

[kube-system]

> Now you're playing games with "offer". I've never once seen a Camry with cameras.

I test drove one last year, it wasn't even the highest trim... A few of my coworkers are driving used cars with 360 cameras. These aren't really new features.

> Look, the simple ground truth is that the experience of driving a four year old Tesla (the age of my Y) is simply better than any vehicle I'm going to find anywhere at that price point or lower (or give a bit for inflation, even).

Yeah, they're not bad cars. I never said they were. I said other auto makers are also shipping some of these features. I'm not attacking your vehicle; you're allowed to like it.

> Sigh. I said I wouldn't be trolled[1], but it's a camera-based attention monitoring system now. There's no requirement for the hand on the wheel (well, it will yell at you if it sees you duck out of the camera center and you need a physical input to acknowledge), and hasn't been for more than a year.

Yes, they updated their system to do this last year. A lot of auto makers have hands-free systems today, many of them already had them shipped last year, and some shipped them years before Tesla did. And while Tesla still requires you to look at the road, a couple of auto makers are shipping level three systems.

I'm not making any sort of personal attack on your purchase. I'm just here to tell you that they're not the only ones shipping these sorts of features.