[npteljes]

Same for me. I appreciate stories and standard gameplay loops more than bossfights.

I did stumble upon a game where I enjoy the bossfights though - in V Rising. There is a TON of bosses in the game, but the game is so full of quality of life stuff that even dying repeatedly is not a big deal.

I generally dislike when my time is a stake in the game. I have so little of it in the first place, I don't like risking it in this way.

[RDaneel0livaw]

I'll echo how good V Rising is. I don't even like this entire genre (base building grindy survival), but I had a blast in this game. I eventually gave up when managing my castle became too much of an annoying chore (omg I have to tear everything down and rebuild it all AGAIN because now I don't have enough space in the required room to place this new crafting bench or whatever ... OMG PLEASE NO) but the world exploration and combat and bosses was always super fun. I also loved how they allowed the player to scale the difficulty however they wanted. I wound up turning my game into "baby" mode by cranking the boss difficulty down just because I didn't want to keep replaying the bosses in my limited time. Had a blast!

[npteljes]

Yeah, I play with my friend and we had good luck with the castle placement. First castle was of course in the first zone, and when we proceeded into the second, we settled in basically the very center of the map, a bit toward the top. That turned out to be a fine location, as on horseback, nothing was too far. Castle size as well, initially I built is to just fit the existing infra, but when I sensed that there are going to be additions, I built it a bit larger than it needed to be, and now we can fit everything, especially with the little in-house teleports.

I totally feel your way of beating the game on normal, and the bosses on easy. I did that with Persona 5 at points, and Unicorn Overlord as well. I really appreciate that games provide this option.

[rkomorn]

Well crud, two recommendations? This is starting to feel compelling. Onto my wishlist it goes.

I solo'd my way through all the available Sunkenland content a few months ago so base building grindy survival is probably kind of my jam.

[YurgenJurgensen]

It’s interesting how many people with little time still manage to make time to comment on how little time they have in news article comment threads.

[npteljes]

It all hinges the many interpretations of "time". For example, this comment takes 5 minutes from me, during a transition between two larger tasks. The gaming I described though is different. I don't even start a game if I don't have at least an hour or so.

Also, people often mean "energy" or "willpower" by "time". It's like a general, non-material cost of things. "I don't have the time for X" can many times be translated to "I can't imagine managing another context", "I don't want to commit to X", "I can't be assed to start doing X after everything I do in a day", etc. Time in these context is just a convenient scapegoat. This is also addressed by the idea “It’s not about “having” time. It’s about making time.”. For what they really want, people seem to "make time" for, even in the busiest schedules.

[rkomorn]

Yeah. Although maybe I can't say my time is that precious because I'm somehow pretty happy to grind through hours of quests.

Heck, I even seem to like job-like games (Hardspace Shipbreaker was amazing to me).

I guess the "if you don't pass this, start over!" aspect of boss fights is the thing that irks me.

[npteljes]

Yeah... you're right. Ultimately it's not that my time is precious, it's that I get no satisfaction of beating a boss. I hate how overpowered are with scripted stuff, for example, and how they break most game mechanics introduced so far. And so, my time spent seems to be wasted.

Looking at how other people describe their experience, it seems like the figuring out part brings them joy. I usually have that with the core game mechanics themselves. The "knowledge" I get seems useful here, because I get to apply it to the rest of the game, but learning the boss mechanics seems like a throwaway thing, and I think this bothers me.

I also don't enjoy replaying parts of the game, especially as a punishment, especially when the replayed part had nothing to do with the my failure itself - like clearing the trash before a boss, or replaying parts of the bossfight before the crucial part, or getting back to the boss' place from a checkpoint. Such a slog!

[bccdee]

> Looking at how other people describe their experience, it seems like the figuring out part brings them joy

It's the pleasure of mastery. To me, the fun of a challenge like that is in gradually mastering something difficult and then being able to perform it perfectly. In fact, I'm sometimes a bit disappointed by the way that a boss fight ends when you get it right. The feeling of getting it right is my reward for the work I've put in, and I want that feeling to be drawn out. This is why I don't mind dying and restarting, at least in a good boss fight. The experience of being in the fight feels good and only gets better. That's why these games are rewarding to replay. It's like you're playing the hits or something.

My favourite boss fights are from Sekiro—there's a nice little video about it here¹ if you're interested in what other people love so much about tough boss fights.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W4li9yfY3o

[npteljes]

The video moved something in me. I feel I hate being put down a bit too much. (Being made feel stupid, small, inadequate). I mostly counter this not by facing the problem itself, but by overpowering myself in another context - in games, via gear or levels. After winning these battles I don't feel victorious, I feel like I finally got away.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, I really appreciate it.

[rkomorn]

I think we are 100% on the same page, but I wanna share one last pet peeve for the road. :D

You beat the boss! BUT WAIT!!! It's not actually dead!

And then you say "wow, no way!" ironically as you watch its health bar refill.

Who could ever have expected this?!

[npteljes]

Yeah, I hate that shit as well. It's one of the reasons why I feel no satisfaction after beating a boss. I had so many experiences where they have pulled a "Somehow, Palpatine returned" that I just don't trust the happiness sequence that usually follows a bossfight.