[chelmzy]

Crazy he wouldn't go for a Bolt. I just bought a 2019 Chevy Bolt w/ 11k miles for $14.5k (so a bit over 10k after federal rebate). It has a brand new battery because all the Bolts were recalled for battery issues. Has around 250m range. Feel like I won the lottery. Still plenty of them available https://www.donohooauto.com/searchused.aspx?Make=Chevrolet&M...

[cosmic_cheese]

I have a lease end coming up and the Bolt/EUV are on my radar, but one significant advantage that Leafs have is that the lower trims can have their head unit swapped out for a nice Pioneer or Sony unit from Crutchfield, just like is possible with many ICE vehicles, which can get you a nicer infotainment experience (including wireless CarPlay/AA) that isn’t encrusted with rent-seeking gunk.

[seanmcdirmid]

> just like is possible with many ICE vehicles

Many older ICE vehicles, you mean? EVs aren't really special in their use of custom car-bound head units. BMW XDrive is the same XDrive they have in their EVs as they have in their ICEs. Mandatory backup cams is only going to accelerate that.

[cosmic_cheese]

It’s an unfortunate trend. I’m not sure mandatory backup cameras is really a driving cause, though — the bulk of third party head units have backup cam support out of the box and some even let you add a 360° overhead parking view if you’re willing to drill some holes and wire cameras.

The biggest reason for non-modular infotainment is to push people into subscription services.

[seanmcdirmid]

The cars hade to come from the factory with backup cams now, then that’s going to open the floodgates to other features where a custom head unit would be useful, since they need one anyways. Unfortunately none of those features are done in a standard way where pioneer or alpine can plug into the car’s bus and somehow manipulate it.

[jdeibele]

I drive a 2023 Bolt EUV and it has wireless CarPlay. My wife's 2024 Equinox EV has Android Automotive and no CarPlay. We don't have Android phones so I don't know how well an Android phone would work with Android Automotive.

I've been tempted to get a larger car but the Bolt is so much more fun to drive compared to the Equinox.

[01100011]

IIRC my 2019 Bolt had android auto but required the USB cable be plugged-in. My aftermarket, China-special head unit in the old car I've been driving lately has wireless Android Auto and while it's cool, it's still effectively wired due to how quickly it drains my Pixel 8 Pro's battery.

[cosmic_cheese]

Interesting. CarPlay wireless has very little impact on battery life in my experience, with both a 14 Pro Max and 16 Pro Max.

[turtlebits]

The Bolt EV supports Android Auto and Carplay, you can get a ~$30 USB dongle to give you wireless.

[Workaccount2]

I was so close to pulling the trigger on one of these except for 3 factors: It's driving assist platform is now deprecated and no longer receiving area expansions (I know many could not care less), it's charging speed is pretty slow by today's norms, and it will likely retain almost no value as time goes on.

[blank_fan_pill]

> it will likely retain almost no value as time goes on.

If you're buying a car as an investment I have bad news for you...

[Workaccount2]

Sure, but you can buy one for $12k and get almost nothing back, or buy a more modern EV for $25k and maybe get $13k back. In both cases you are losing $12k in a few years, but in one of the cases you get a more modern car.

[LeifCarrotson]

Get almost nothing back from your $12k used car? Nonsense, you get a larger fraction back, the annual depreciation continuously slows down.

If a 6-year-old Bolt is still worth $14.5k, then an 8- or, say, 12-year-old Bolt isn't worth $0. Most of that depreciation happened in the first year, it's still going to be worth $12k or $9k.

For example, Jeff's 2023 Leaf originally sold for about $30k. Now, just TWO YEARS later, he probably paid $15k to $19k for it. That's a steal! Given he drives his vehicles into the ground, it probably doesn't matter, but if he wanted to sell it in a few years he could still get $10 to $15k from it.

[geerlingguy]

$15k, plus end of year $4k used EV rebate :)

[culopatin]

Isn’t that ending soon?

[IshKebab]

Nah, the newer a car is the faster it deprecates.

[bryanlarsen]

Scrap value of a car is several thousand dollars these days. The OP's $12K car is likely going to last > 10 years. A $25k will likely depreciate more $12K in 10 years.

[inerte]

Plus insurance + registration

[devnullbrain]

If you're buying a car as an investment then you're only marginly more foolish than if you're buying a car without considering varying levels of depreciation as part of the running costs.

[mikepavone]

I have a 2017 Bolt as my only car and the slow L3 charging is definitely a downside, but I haven't found it to be a huge issue in practice. On a trip long enough to worry about fast-charging you're going to need to stop to eat periodically anyway so if you plan your charging around meals you don't end up waiting too long. Obviously gets a bit more annoying on trips that are long enough to require more than one fast-charge per-day, but I don't take trips that long frequently.

Day to day charging is generally all going to be L2 or even L1 depending on how far you drive and how long typically parked somewhere with a plug. That will be roughly the same speed in any car. Some cars do have higher capacity L2 chargers than the Bolt does, but most public L2 stations don't provide the higher current needed to see the difference.

[cogman10]

This I think is the key that most non-EV drivers don't recognize. Especially if you own a home, then an EV is really fantastic. You simply plug it in whenever you are home and 99% of the time you spend 0 time waiting for a charge. The slow trickle charge is both cheaper and more convenient because you aren't making trips to a gas station on a weekly/biweekly basis.

[Uvix]

Rather than planning your charging around meals, you're more likely going to have to plan your meals around charging. I don't see a lot of restaurants with level 3 chargers in the parking lot.

[nebula8804]

Are you saying SuperCruise on the Bolt stops working or just that they wont expand existing coverage?

This Bolt EUV car drives so damn good. I was very impressed when I drove it.

The Bose audio is also quite good. After testing several new cars, I learned that Bose audio is not implemented the same across manufacturers. For example Mazda Premium Bose is just plain mediocre.

For the price that you can pay for one, Bolt EUV is an amazing deal. Unfortunately the charge speed is a deal breaker for many. But I never forgot how well it handles.

I really hope these cars last, they are a hidden gem and I think a lot wouldnt care about resale value if that charge speed was a bit better.

[com2kid]

The audio really is banging. Everything from dubstep to heavy metal to classical it handles as well as any car audio system will (which is to say garbage compared to even a mediocre home audio setup, but all car audio sucks due to acoustics of being in a car going down a road!)

Sadly I live in a city now so I can't drive down curvy roads away from everyone, windows down blasting beats anymore. :( (I try to be a responsible asshole! :)

[wffurr]

"driving assist platform is now deprecated and no longer receiving area expansions"

What driving assist platform? I don't think the older Chevy Bolts have any such thing. At least I'm pretty sure my 2017 doesn't.

[mikepavone]

IIRC, the EUV had an option for normal adaptive cruise control, but I don't think any ever had a Super Cruise style option

[com2kid]

The euv does have a super cruise option, the car next to the one I bought had it. Came into the showroom the day after I signed my paperwork. :(

[wlesieutre]

If you're worried about self driving features, there's always the option of a Comma AI retrofit

[com2kid]

Lane keeping works (poorly) but Bolt's automatic cruise control implementation is really good and works in stop and go traffic and at street speeds. I've used ACS systems before that refused to work in both those scenarios.

Charging time for road trips sucks. 99% of my driving is around town. Being a smaller EV it fits city life very well and I just top it off on a 120v plug every night.

I got a 2023 fully loaded with sunroof (except super cruise) for 24k, only had 40 miles on it.

That said the app is horrible and you can see how GM just didn't give a shit all throughout the car. No AC/dog mode. If you shift too fast after turning the car on you have to reboot the car using a secret method that is buried on forums (anyone reading this, don't press break, hold down the power button until the car restarts) and you can only remotely turn climate on to its last setting from the app.

Oh and even if you pay monthly for remote access just checking the charge level through your phone probably won't work (time outs...) and locating your car really won't work.

If you turn on climate remotely, drive somewhere less than 10 minutes away and then get out, you may try to turn climate back on using the app, but that won't work because the app has a really long cool down before it even checks the car to see what the status is so you end up in an invalid state where the app thinks the car is still on even though you just stepped out and turned it off.

Resistive heating means even with Seattle's mild winters I barely have 200 miles of range.

The car isn't smart enough to close the sunroof visor on hot days to keep the car cool.

In general it feels like what it is - a mid 2010s car that was far behind Tesla at the time for thoughtful details (expected given the year and GM) that was sold into the 2020s way after other manufacturers had updated their cars electronics to have common sense features.

That said some details are nice. You can be connected to car play and Android Auto at the same time and designate one of those as primary for apps and navigation but take calls through both. Physical climate controls are appreciated, and the rain sensing wipers actually work well. ;)

The 360 camera is wonderful to have. It cost me $10k vs getting a the base trim car, totally worth it.

I bought it April 2024 and I have some 0 maintenance other than car washes. So damn cheap to own.

In the 16 months I've owned it I've only put on 6k miles and it'll never pay for itself on gas savings , but last car was totalled and I legit enjoyed test driving the EUV more than a Lexus UX 300h that cost a lot more.

So anyways happy with the purchase, great value, horrible for road trips but I do them anyway.

[culopatin]

10k for a camera in a car the size of a skittle? I’m glad you enjoy it but I can’t understand what I would need it for.

[com2kid]

It is actually the largest car I've ever owned, and if it was up to me it'd be a few inches narrower in the very least. I prefer sub-compacts. As it is I miss my first car, I could squeeze in-between almost any 2 cars and be able to open my door and get out. A bit more clearance in the EUV would be nice, I definitely miss out on some spaces because of the extra width compared to my past cars.

The camera is super useful when parking in narrow spaces in those parking garages where each space is flanked by concrete pillar on both sides (why design it like that? Those pillars are covered in car paint...) or when parallel parking on a one lane road that has cars parked on both sides (always fun!).

There is actually one underground parking garage I have to use occasionally that has a hairpin turn to get out, and the wall is an interesting mish-mash of car paint colors. I've turned on the cameras for that curve as well, absolutely horrible garage and having a top down view really helps out.

[ddalex]

> Has around 250m range

250 meters ? but I want to drive off my street....

[ta12653421]

--1

[pkulak]

Well, that's certainly not the cheapest. You can find old Leafs for 5k. People love Bolts, for good reason, and bit them up.

[BizarroLand]

I've seen Leafs for $3k or less. The problem is their battery life is ~10 years max, and replacing the battery costs $5k-$15k. That old leaf may have a 30-50 mile max range.

Don't get me wrong, that would still cover 80% of my daily driving needs, but when I need to drive to the big town for work on a moments notice I may not have time to drive home and swap out for my ICE vehicle.

I have a pre-order in for the Slate, having 150 miles range would cover 99% of my driving needs, so I am not against EVs, just sharing the awareness that battery degradation is a thing to be concerned about.

[pkulak]

> The problem is their battery life is ~10 years max

Depends on how you define "life". I think for the Leaf, it's 70% capacity. But even if it gets down to 50%, it'll sill keep driving.

Also, what's really annoying, is that every seller factors in tax credits to their price. So that 3k may really be 5k. I'm actually looking forward to that no longer being possible.

[culopatin]

My gf had a leaf when she met me and she couldn’t drive back home in one charge. Worked out great for me.

The fact that the range is so ass means you HAVE to charge to 100% every single time, and 80 to 100 takes ages. She’d spend 45min charging for 45min of driving.

[ambicapter]

There still are federal rebates?

[chelmzy]

Until September 30th so better hurry.

[rogerrogerr]

Note that many HN residents probably have too much MAGI - do your diligence on that tax credit before assuming you qualify.

[cosmic_cheese]

The way dealerships roll rebates into their advertised prices is incredibly annoying if you don’t qualify. I kind of wonder if prices aren’t being inflated somewhat by dealers being able to put numbers that are ~$10k lower than reality out there.

[rogerrogerr]

I expect to see a severe price drop in both the used and new markets when these credits evaporate.

(Which is what you’d expect - of course free government money will raise prices above where they would be.)

[FireBeyond]

Let's not pretend dealerships (for all their legitimate issues) are solely at fault here. Tesla makes you scroll down to find a light grey small text checked box "Include $7,500 Federal tax credit" that is the default.

[loeg]

There is no MAGI exclusion for the tax credit on leases, FWIW.

[NooneAtAll3]

what's magi?