[shadowgovt]

At this point, it is really important for everyone in the industry to recognize that the industry leaders (in terms of "running the most successful companies") should not be considered ethical or moral leaders.

It's a categorical error. Like expecting a boat captain to be Descartes because they're good at leading people to operate a boat (or, for that matter, expecting Descartes to take first in a marathon because he was really good at applying logic to philosophical questions).

[dwb]

They may not be moral leaders, but I expect them to be leaders who are moral. Well, I don’t expect that they will be, but that’s my standard.

[shadowgovt]

And the key thing to recognize is that there's nothing in the system to enforce that standard. "Good at making money" or "Good at running a business" doesn't mean one is good at anything else, or, indeed, is good.

I think it's easy for people to make this error because humans like heroes; heroes simplify things. We want to believe that the people who are succeeding are succeeding because they're virtuous, not because (just spitballing here) the mechanisms we use to evaluate success are fundamentally detached from (if not opposed to) "virtue" as most people would understand the concept. if the latter is true, the world is far messier.

Sometimes it takes all those people voluntarily sitting at the same table as a convicted, unrepentant, and unpunished sexual abuser for the outside observer to "get" it.

Perhaps the still-open question is "Now what should one do with that knowledge?"

[dwb]

> And the key thing to recognize is that there's nothing in the system to enforce that standard. "Good at making money" or "Good at running a business" doesn't mean one is good at anything else, or, indeed, is good.

I’m well aware of that, no need to get all pedagogical. The system is quite far from what I favour. I’m saying that we shouldn’t be shrugging and saying “well that’s just what they are”, it’s no excuse.

[shadowgovt]

Oh, agreed. If anything, I'm asking people to stop shrugging and saying "that's just what they are." Physicists had their come-to-Pugwash moment two (three?) generations ago and I'm hoping this generation of computer scientist can get there without waking up one day to discover their research was directly contributory to removing a quarter-million people from the face of the planet.

Their forebears, sadly, did not. Specifically the ones who worked at IBM, but others as well.

[geodel]

Yup, standards are the best thing applied to others.

[tastyface]

Moral neutrality is one thing. It may be disappointing (but not unexpected) for the CEO of your favorite company to wine and dine the leader of an unsavory political party. But... this person is currently all over the news for being best friends with one of the most prolific pedophiles in America, as well as trying desperately to suppress the release of documents where he and prominent members of his circle may be implicated. This meeting is not just morally neutral, not just immoral, but utterly depraved.