My online bank doesn’t support international wire transfers. I had to wire money to a local bank then go to the branch in person, twice, to wire money to my own brother in Europe.
He then had to schedule an appointment with his own bank, go in person, and justify why he received such a big transfer, mind you, it was 8k…
So yeah, it’s not about regulation. If crypto can help streamline all this, it’s a net positive
I wired approximately that much money internationally years ago with Wise (then known as TransferWise). Wasn't a hassle at all, didn't require any rigamarole, and importantly, didn't require crypto. What's the problem with using Wise?
It may differ depending on countries, but I tried sending $8k USD to Malaysia and it took some time. Can't remember if it was weeks or days but point being it wasn't as instant as crypto can be.
Also, I think you're neglecting to point out the rigmarole involved with making a Wise account — connecting your bank accounts etc. And the recipient might also need a Wise account for instant transfers (but I believe Wise becomes a custodian for your funds in that case).
Crypto wallets can be generated by the click of a button. I think I taught my mom how to make a crypto wallet at some point. She didn't understand how to keep her crypto safe, which is its own issue, but wallet creation is easy.
I'm far from a crypto maximalist, but nigh-instant transfers with very little fee is a very attractive benefit of crypto.
Creating a crypto wallet to receive is just the first step though. If your mom needs her local currency then the same as with wise she needs to create an account on some form of exchange or pay an extortionate rate to use a crypto ATM.
If she doesn't need that then wise without a linked account or PayPal or etc is the exact same outcome without the crypto wallet security risk.
That's a fair point, but creating an account on an exchange isn't too bothersome.
I personally use a Ledger device for my crypto. It was super easy to set up (though I wouldn't advise it to my mom, because she tends to misplace things). I linked my crypto wallet to my bank account fairly easily. So we can still get nigh-instant crypto transfers and fast selling of crypto into local currency (Speaking from US here, I think it usually just takes up to one business day). It's still faster than bank-to-bank transfer for large sums, which again, can take weeks for whatever reason they decide.
> wise without a linked account or PayPal or etc is the exact same outcome
PayPal without a linked account is actually pretty terrible. I did a Google search of PayPal frozen funds and this was the first result.
Wise may have similar issues, I haven't really dealt with them outside of the occasional transfer, but I never let money sit in my wise account.
If you have custody of your own crypto wallet (IE not coinbase), no one can freeze your funds.
Again, I have my qualms with crypto, but the existing shitty state of ways to transfer money makes crypto very attractive. I have trouble even transferring money between my wife and my joint bank account and my personal account (held at two different institutions).
So your setup process is the same as wise or PayPal. You still had to do the process so crypto is best case harder since you also had to setup and manage a wallet unless you're just using the exchange one.
Go look at the subreddit of any of the major exchanges and they all regularly have stories of locked funds. Given the scales it would be far more likely there.
That's not a natural state of banking though that's a issue with your country. I have accounts at 4 different banks in Australia and regularly transfer funds between them without issue(I think my cap for instant transfer is around $5k though above that is usually only a few hours). Canada had a similar system(interac payments).
On march 16th 2022 I sent $500 to my cousin in the USA, the transaction was completed on may 2nd 2022 after 9 back and forth emails with support. The first email on march 16th was asking me to confirm some information which I did same day, the other 8 back and forth emails was me asking when was my transaction going to be completed... at that time I had been an active wise user for 3 years...
I'm a Wise user. Transfers are mostly fine for currencies they support. The transfer is usually pretty fast. I tried paying for a guided Hike in Tbilisi, Georgia a few years ago, and the transfer took almost a week, so it's slow in some cases. For currencies Wise doesn't support, you need to look at other options, such as Western Union or crypto.
The limitations you're describing are only in place because the countries that are subject to these bank limitations present significant issues (money laundering, terrorism, etc).
In EU, regulations are heavy and the result is I can send money instantly for free. That’s actually what the regulations are for. To protect free trade from bad actors.
Protection and control are indistinguishable. And secondly what if the State is a bad actor?
"Protecting" free trade from "bad actors" is just an extension of the state to control what "free trade" is from what it considers "bad actors".
Bad behavior does exist, but current technology far exceeds the capacity of bureaucracy to implement free trade, protection from bad actors, and most importantly Trust. The state itself becoming a bad actor is an increasing risk, which technology helps to hedge against.
I think it's important to remember that the Government IS PEOPLE. How are the people in Government any different from "normal" people.
They're not.
And so the people in government will be just as misguided, corrupt, fallible as any other organization of people. Technology helps us hedge against those failures.
Depends. For the Founders of the US, it was a base assumption that the state was a bad actor. It's usually a good bet (i.e., it pays off more times than not), IMHO.
> It's usually a good bet (i.e., it pays off more times than not), IMHO.
If that was actually true, why do you put up with The State? Why do you not overthrow it? Seriously: if the state/government is bad why do you even have it?
Is the (municipal) State being a bad actor when it paves roads and runs water-sewage? Is the (state/provincial) State a bad actor when it runs schools? Is the (federal) State being a bad actor when it protects waters with Coast Guard and Navy and enviornmental regulation, when it inspects food, funds science and medicine?
It seems to me you get what you expect: the (e.g.) Nordics expect government to be a good actor and try to live up to those expectations; (some?) Americans expect government to be a bad actor and try to dismantle it… creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps if more Americans expected and fought for / 'demanded' better government they would get it.
> Personally I trust the state (at least mine) more than any corporation.
I trust the state in aggregate no more than the least-trusted corporation, because corporations are, as creatures of law rather than nature, manifestations and exercises of state power.
This is a ridiculous fallacy, one that gets people killed. Many a failed revolution, ill-fated coup or catastrophic invasion began by assuming the state was just people. The Battle of Stalingrad, the Vietnam War, the Soviet-Afghan War, the Gulf War. The state is a giant apparatus that doesn't know right from wrong, it just responds in the way it's supposed to like a sheepish animal. It happens in Congress, in the CCP Politburo, pretty much anywhere. The inhuman indifference of the state is a feature of modern legislation we call Rule of Law.
Technology is similarly indifferent, and it's common that cryptocurrency is deliberately designed to exacerbate the fallibility of people. Unpegged stablecoins, shit memecoins, rugpull tokens... that's what I would call "consumer fraud" in a functioning economy. Or "gambling" at the very least.
If the state is a bad actor good luck with using cryptocurrencies to avoid that. You will be retrospectively controlled if necessary.
The state as a bad actor is controlled by democracy, not technology.
Aside from that, in payments the bad actors you need to actually worry about are malicious vendors and customers and hackers stealing your details and your money. None of which Cryptocurrencies make better, mostly they make that worse, because they were designed as digital cash.
> In EU, regulations are heavy and the result is I can send money instantly for free.
I can assure the cost of those regulations is enormous for the banks. They were forced to make the SEPA transfers free but you ended up paying for it everywhere else.
the original claim was that somehow the EU regulation enabled free, instant transfers. the claimant didn't specify but obviously talked about SEPA transfers, however, they aren't free or instant across Europe by a large margin.
Just don't trade. Easy. We're actually supporting free trade by restricting free trade. Because when the government controls what you trade that's what free trade actually is.
What an amazingly blatant example of Orwellianism.
check out the revolut sub on Reddit and you'll see random people getting a ridiculous amount of KYC for even a couple hundred or low thousands of euro.
I should be able to transact with anyone, anywhere in the world, near instantly with little or no fees.
This isn't some radical, cyberpunk extremist, this is just pure trade. We have technology to facilitate this but we've been held back for decades by greed and legislation.
I would like to restrict you, yes you personally, from transacting with criminals… because that makes them more powerful and me less safe.
I’m sorry that your fellow humans don’t want you shitting up the place, but don’t blame the bog standard norms of civilisation on some sort of government conspiracy.
I once wanted to send money to someone with an extremely common Arabic name, think "John Smith" in Arabic. My bank took issue with this and wanted a copy of their ID etc. One can speculate about why they wanted this, but ultimately I think it shows that the regulations are racist.
So yeah, it’s not about regulation. If crypto can help streamline all this, it’s a net positive