Love hearing about professional athletes taking their finances seriously. Based on the article, seems like he's taken the same approach as Rob Gronkowski--investing all of his NFL contract, living only on endorsements.
Easier to do when you're an extremely relevant person in your sport.
Not all NFL athletes have a shot at getting any endorsements at all. In fact, most don't.
Be a star player or famous role player on a very successful team, that's way different than some backup lineman who is out of the league by the time their rookie contract ends.
American football is by and far the worst culprit - in all the other big or semi-relevant american sports - baseball, basketball, hockey, etc, you can make a decent living playing overseas. Not huge, but decent enough. Can't do that with football.
100% agree with you. Median salary is $800k, which is amazing, but if you only get 2-3 years out of it, need to index the take-home and live like a college student to make it worth anything after compounding.
But that's also before tax. A lot of these guys play in high tax states. Then they have to pay agent fees.
Then the expenses related to their jobs - food, training, etc. Shit ain't cheap. And before you ask - no, not all NFL teams really provide a ton to their players. My local team, Miami, has the best nutrition and food staff in the league. Players love it. Other teams don't provide much besides Gatorade on game days or other shitty protein snacks provided by league sponsors. Forget about full nutritious meals. Then you've got some teams with a great strength and conditioning staff. Other teams simply don't, which leaves players to find their own private solutions. This all adds up.
That's not that unreasonable... they're working in the state, they should pay income tax for the work they do while in the state.
Many (but not all) states have tax credit arangements with other states so you wouldn't pay full tax on all income to your state of residence as well as the taxes owed to the states you worked in.
The median NFL salary is like 850k/year, and the average is ~3million/year.
Seems like a lot for playing with a ball, while producing exactly zero in practical value (other than advertising and distraction, which is a net negative for society arguably).
If you're taking that standpoint, then all entertainment has zero practical value. Game devs/studios, actors/movie studios, musicians, board game designers, etc, etc - all worthless.
Would you prefer they all do this work out of the goodness of their hearts, simply as fun hobbies? Gifts to society?
The vast majority of wealthy celebrities are such because they provide entertainment.
Back in the early 90s in my 10th grade econ class, the teacher spent a whole class examinging Michael Jordan's value through salary and endorsements, and whether or not he actually deserved it. By the end of the class, he made the point that not only did he deserve it, he was vastly under-compensated for the value he brought the NBA and the companies that endorsed him, and ultimately, society of a whole.
> If you're taking that standpoint, then all entertainment has zero practical value. Game devs/studios, actors/movie studios, musicians, board game designers, etc, etc - all worthless.
I didn't say they are all worthless, yeah sports has value as entertainment, but it does not provide practical benefit to society generally speaking.
> Would you prefer they all do this work out of the goodness of their hearts, simply as fun hobbies? Gifts to society?
Not at all, I'm simply pointing out that earning 850k/year for playing with a ball for entertainment is not at all as terrible as others in this thread make it out to be. It's quite a sweet deal.
> The vast majority of wealthy celebrities are such because they provide entertainment.
And I would have no problem if the vast majority of these celebrities were not wealthy.
> By the end of the class, he made the point that not only did he deserve it, he was vastly under-compensated for the value he brought the NBA and the companies that endorsed him, and ultimately, society of a whole.
I mean cool story, but 'my 10th grade teacher said this' is not really interesting or convincing in any way. Yeah, star players provide income for the team/owners, and yes most of that is because of advertising (literally the dishonest manipulation of people into behaviors which are generally not beneficial to them), so just because they provide income for the team/owners does not mean it is a net benefit for society.
Take entertainment/sports watching and replace it with another type of 'entertainment' which people would love even more if it was as marketed nearly as much - heroin. Yes people love it, it generates 'economic activity and financial transactions', yes addicts will freely chose to spend their money on it. Does that make heroin a net benefit to society?
It’s a wild argument that entertainment does not provide practical value for society. It absolutely, unequivocally does. It’s an overwhelming driver of capitalism and consumer behavior, and it also provides real social and cultural cohesion.
As to the 850k median salary, you also have to consider that the vast majority of players don’t last more than a few years in the league. The lifetime value of a typical NFL career is far less - and far more rare - than a big tech career. Additionally, NFL players subject their body to stress that can lead to lifetime medical issues.
And on top of that, the advertising you dismiss is what funds much of big tech, and is integral to how capitalist society functions as a whole.
> It’s a wild argument that entertainment does not provide practical value for society.
I'm talking specifically about NFL (and some other sports). Not all entertainment.
> It’s an overwhelming driver of capitalism and consumer behavior
That doesn't make it a benefit to society. Slavery was an 'economic driver' - is that of overall benefit to society? Dishonest advertising is a 'driver of capitalism and consumer behaviour' - is dishonest advertising a benefit to society?
> and it also provides real social and cultural cohesion.
Really? An arbitrary made up game provides 'real' social and cultural cohesion? How so? The only reason NFL is so popular is because it was very strongly pushed onto society for decades in a top-down way everywhere from schools to television, radio, etc. It's been long understood that sports entertainment makes people pay less attention to things that actually practically affect them such as policy and economics, and that's part of the reason sports entertainment is so heavily pushed in US. You can replace NFL with another arbitrary made-up ball-game and nothing would change.
> As to the 850k median salary, you also have to consider that the vast majority of players don’t last more than a few years in the league.
I don't see how that's relevant? Are they incapable of working after playing the NFL? Or is working a regular job like the rest of us so shockingly terrible that it shouldn't even be considered for NFL players?
> The lifetime value of an NFL career is far less - and far more rare - than a big tech career.
If they were to live and spend like a regular person, they would save in 3 years more than the median person saves in their entire life.
> And on top of that, the advertising you dismiss is what funds much of big tech
That doesn't really contradict my point at all? I wouldn't mind at all if ads were less prevalent, more honest, and ad-based big tech like meta made less money.
> is integral to how capitalist society functions as a whole.
People who play professional sports basically sacrifice the first 20 years of their life for a lotto ticket to get, on average, 2-4 years of playing time. There's a high risk of debilitating injury even if they're successful. As other people have pointed out that salary is before you consider any professional fees for agents, etc.
I do also have to remark on the irony of someone on the "250k a year to type prompts into a AI to get the wrong answer" website complaining that athletes are overpaid and don't contribute anything to society
> People who play professional sports basically sacrifice the first 20 years of their life for a lotto ticket to get, on average, 2-4 years of playing time.
Everybody who studies and works towards a career/goal 'sacrifices the first 20 years of their life' as well by that logic. And playing lottery is a pointless and practically useless activity, which only results in negative results for the vast majority of participants.
> I do also have to remark on the irony of someone on the "250k a year to type prompts into a AI to get the wrong answer" website complaining that athletes are overpaid and don't contribute anything to society
I don't see the irony at all. But I guess your point is that posting 'on the "250k a year to type prompts into a AI to get the wrong answer" website' makes your comments somehow irrelevant and/or meaningless? Is that the point you're trying to make lol?
> I don't see the irony at all. But I guess your point is that posting 'on the "250k a year to type prompts into a AI to get the wrong answer" website' makes your comments somehow irrelevant and/or meaningless? Is that the point you're trying to make lol?
Yeah honestly HN is a huge circle jerk and commenting here feels like I am losing brain cells. Unfortunately as someone who doesn't live in the Bay and works remotely for startups there's some signalling value when interviewing if you can regurgitate whatever has been on the front page recently.
Although, we shouldn’t overstate the sacrifice, in the sense that: lots of people sacrifice those 20 years and don’t end up as professional sport players. We don’t reward sacrifice as a society, we reward value.
I don’t get much entertainment from watching sports, but I mean, the market is how we decide how to value things in the US, and it turns out professional sports are valuable by that metric for whatever reason.
Sports like NFL, Hockey, etc. are completely arbitrary and artificial. The only reason most people that watch these sports is because of marketing and being pushed to do so by society. Remove NFL and replace it with another arbitrary made up ball-game and nothing would change.
What is materially produced by the NFL? What societal problems does it solve?
It's as practically useful as scrolling through a tiktok feed, and the 'value' is basically the same - pushing advertising (which I don't consider to be a net benefit to society).
Just because you don't understand a sport doesn't make it "artifical", "arbitrary", impractical, or devoid of value.
I enjoy NFL football because it is a showcase of brain (from the offensive and defensive schemes), brawn (pretty self explanatory), and planning (drafting, trading, roster construction). Arguably moreso than most software development (replace brawn with the mental toughness to not crack after the fifth night of sleeping under your desk to ship something).
That you do not understand the game does not make it worthless. Clearly there is some worth because football is something people pay a lot of money to enjoy, and that money, while also concentrating in the hands of owners (and there's a lot to talk about there), goes to support the trainers, assistants, equipment managers, travel coordinators, hotel workers, security guards at the game, stadium staff, concessions staff, bars and restaurants (both around the stadium and at home during away games), and many other people. It inarguably creates value. That doesn't go away because you don't like and don't understand it.
Including practice squad players (who are paid peanuts), the NFL has about 2,240 roster spots. About a million US high school students play football any given year. The average NFL career is 3.3 years.
So from 3.3 graduating classes of a million high school football players, you'd expect somewhere around 0.07% to make it into the NFL. Fewer even will
have something resembling a successful career.
Then look at how many high paying "smart person" jobs there are. There are about a million doctors in the US, two million engineers, and four million computer professionals.
Almost every student studies math, almost none of those ever become a mathematician - who are compensated much less than NFL players.
> There are about a million doctors in the US
Comparing # of doctors to # of NFL players is a very false equivalence. Try comparing # of athletes in all sports combined to number of doctors - that would be more reasonable. Or compare the number of brain surgeons to the number of NFL players - and the difficulty/time in becoming either.
Being a doctor is a much more stressful and difficult job, which requires more years of training/education and provides far more real value for society.
One of my best friends is now in a wheelchair for life, thanks to high school football.
You are always taking a risk. Sometimes it's just that it won't work out financially. Sometimes it's more serious than that. It's a small risk, but non-zero. Even successful football players suffer from much higher rates of mental health issues, among other poor health outcomes.
Just because someone takes risks, doesn't mean they deserve exorbitant compensation for that. Lots of people take risks all of the time for much less. Lots of sports, and even non-sport jobs are much more dangerous than playing in the NFL, and compensated much less.
Complaining about NFL players not making enough money is just funny to me.
I'd argue that the reason for people to do any sort of productive work is to be able to spend it on such "distractions" (as you put it) like Taylor Swift concerts and sports events.
Think about these fantasy sports gambling apps, your coworkers who distract themselves from the drudgery of work by discussing sports, the financial institutions that take a transaction fee from money being passed around, the infinite scroll of content on social media, all because of athletes.
Not me, I spend nothing and invest it all, but all these investments are basically leveraging what society truly wants, among which is leisure and art.
Functionally, as a curmudgeon, my value to the economy is near zero.
> Think about these fantasy sports gambling apps, your coworkers who distract themselves from the drudgery of work by discussing sports, the financial institutions that take a transaction fee from money being passed around, the infinite scroll of content on social media, all because of athletes.
I don't see how you can claim gambling, and pointless discussion about some arbitrary game you (they) don't even play are positive. Financial transactions for the sake of financial transactions are also completely pointless.
lol speaking my language--spend nothing and invest all. I literally have holey socks and a linoleum floor from the 1970s that's starting to fray but make sure to get my BTC purchase in after every paycheck.
Yeah, the market often comes to weird conclusions. But in the end, what’s the alternative, right? If they put me in charge of everything we’d expend a whole lot less in: sports, social media websites… our diets could be a lot more rice and bean based… anyway, probably it is better not to micromanage this stuff too much.
The only reason NFL is as popular as it is, is because of decades of very intentional top-down pushing of it on society everywhere from schools to government, television, radio, etc. It's not a natural development at all. That goes for several other sports as well.
Disagree, it is the most compelling American sport on a lot of levels - some people simply like the pure violence, but it also has the most diverse types of athlete (runners, throwers, catchers, kickers, blockers), the most diverse and interesting scoring plays, the largest rosters (so more personalities), the most types of scoring which then leads to most strategic decisions, most intense clock management, most debatable referee calls, most complex plays (22 individuals), a natural scarcity (only 17 games), possibility of the defense scoring on any play, and a few more reasons. Even college football is more popular than most professional sports. Football is a unique sport that actually is really, really interesting to watch.
I mean… they advertise for themselves extensively, unfortunately lots of organizations do. I’m not sure I see the grand conspiracy. Or at least, I’m not sure how to parse the conspiracy out from, just, lots of people liking sports.
Not all NFL athletes have a shot at getting any endorsements at all. In fact, most don't.
Be a star player or famous role player on a very successful team, that's way different than some backup lineman who is out of the league by the time their rookie contract ends.
American football is by and far the worst culprit - in all the other big or semi-relevant american sports - baseball, basketball, hockey, etc, you can make a decent living playing overseas. Not huge, but decent enough. Can't do that with football.