[jvrossb]

We compete by offering a better work environment (from the perspectives of some), better problems to work on, equity in the company, and more control over the purpose and outcome of your work.

What you're arguing is empirically false. I know tons of startups in the valley that are founded by people who started elsewhere and moved here. Hardly any move back. Those that do have to because of our moronic visa system or move to Boston, Seattle, or New York.

They are almost all hiring, and they manage to find good people (not without a good amount of effort), if they can't afford offices they work out of their living rooms and that's just fine, they don't travel during rush hour so traffic is a non-issue, and if past performance is any indication of future results (which may not be true, is that what you're arguing?) they will make up a disproportionately large portion of the successful (in the admittedly uniquely SV sense) tech companies of the next few years.

[NickKampe]

> We compete by offering a better work environment (from the perspectives of some), better problems to work on, equity in the company, and more control over the purpose and outcome of your work.

While the spare bedroom of my apartment may not be many people's idea of a "better" work environment, we too offer much better problems to solve then that of other tech companies recruiting developers in our area as well as equity. Since we're such a small, close knit team, each of us certainly has the utmost potential to make giant impacts on a day to day basis, and that we do, but that's practically a given when talking about a startup.

> What you're arguing is empirically false. I know tons of startups in the valley that are founded by people who started elsewhere and moved here. Hardly any move back. Those that do have to because of our moronic visa system or move to Boston, Seattle, or New York.

I never said don't eventually migrate to the valley if it's where you feel your company needs to be to position itself for success. So long as you have the resources to be able to move your entire team and their families, as well as the capital to compete with other tech companies while recruiting - Go for it.

> They are almost all hiring

I'm sure they are, who wouldn't be when you have millions of dollars of other people money to throw around at your problems?

> they manage to find good people (not without a good amount of effort), if they can't afford offices they work out of their living rooms and that's just fine.

Touche, we have had no problems recruiting extremely talented individuals, even given the fact we hardly have any perks nor health/dental/pet benefits.

> they don't travel during rush hour so traffic is a non-issue

Sometimes there's no way of avoiding travel during peak times, so your solution just won't cut it.

> if past performance is any indication of future results (which may not be true, is that what you're arguing?) they will make up a disproportionately large portion of the successful (in the admittedly uniquely SV sense) tech companies of the next few years.

That's not what I'm arguing, overall what I'm stating is that geographic location matters very little depending on the market you're pursuing. Obviously a vast majority of the future successful startups will come from the valley strictly due to the amount of VC money being thrown around. However, don't discredit the amount of misinformation and bad advice being fed to founders, as this only further pollutes the thoughts of many to believe that Silicon Valley is the only place their company has a chance to succeed. They've got much better things to think about then what city they need to position themselves in to possibly increase their chances of success, like their product and the well being of their team.

[lsc]

> They've got much better things to think about then what city they need to position themselves in to possibly increase their chances of success, like their product and the well being of their team.

And now we get to the primary reason why I'm willing to spend extra to live here. I mean, I haven't lived in Missouri in so long that I don't really know the state of things there. But I do know that being a nerd in rural California towns? Socially speaking, it's a matter of 'passing' - It's no fun. This is the cultural centre for my people.

This facebook bubble will blow over within the year; It comes, it goes, and from what I've seen, this merry-go-round is about out of juice. Come visit us after that and see what it's like when investors aren't throwing silly money after dumb ideas; after most of the suits go back to selling amway, and after the brogrammers decide to go back to school for their MBAs, it will once again be just us nerds.

Anyhow, really? I'd not worry about it too much. One of the primary advantages small companies have is that we can hire remote workers. And having remote workers gives you a staggeringly large pool to choose from (if you are good at picking people, you can get really good people for not all that much money.) it really is the best of both worlds; you get the 'low expected salary' of the midwest with the giant pool of applicants of the coastal population centres.

For me personally? living here is worth the added costs. Hell, I never really felt like an American until I moved here. Elsewhere in the country, I've always been 'the other' - and for me? I'm willing to pay rather a lot extra for that. That is true of a lot of technical people. I /do/ suggest visiting- maybe even while this bubble is still ongoing. It can be a lot of fun. But yeah, unless you are going for funding (and unless you are the sort of person that can only communicate face-to face) it's probably not a make-or break kind of thing.

All I wanted to point out was that on average, salaries are not as much higher here as you think. Salaries and expectations are both much higher, and that can even out in the end.

(Of course, small companies rely on finding the inefficiencies. The people that are good but underpaid. Small businesses have massive advantages over large companies when it comes to evaluating people and making trade-offs. On top of that, evaluating people is really difficult. Extremely difficult in the interview context, so lots of mistakes are made.)