[lvncelot]

I have a Remarkable 2 that I used to use religiously, now use sporadically, but cannot recommend because of the user-hostile changes to the subscription and the very restrictive underlying software.

One of the promises that lead me to buy one was the hackability - "It's Linux!" "You can SSH into it!", which, on paper (heh) is still true, but in practice very much isn't.

I think something like a Boox, which runs Android, might be more open to customization, but for now I am back to pencil and paper. That doesn't run Linux, but it also won't change its terms of service anytime soon.

[cooperadymas]

Remarkable itself does not promote the devices as hackable. That's the community that has evolved around it taking advantage of the company leaving the device open in this way. Furthermore, there is quite a thriving ecosystem[1] of custom software for the devices, so your assessment of it not working in practice is empirically untrue.

> the very restrictive underlying software

This is by design, based on publicly espoused principles, and everything about the product branding makes it very explicit and obvious. No one should buy a Remarkable device and be surprised about how restrictive it is.

> the user-hostile changes to the subscription

The "user-hostile" changes to the subscription is that they are charging for it.

It is worth emphasizing that nothing is restricted with device usage if you do not have a subscription. They expect you to pay if you want to use anything which runs through their cloud services, which is undeniably reasonable.

You can sync to other cloud providers without an active subscription.[2]

[1] https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable [2] https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...

[kstrauser]

I almost bought one before I realized I’d be subscribing to it. No, that’s absolutely not reasonable given the price of the unit.

These things aren’t syncing videos. They’re moving some text and PDFs around. Even Apple gives you permanently free iCloud services when you own any Apple device, with the complaint being that they should give you more storage, not that you can’t use it at all.

[dbingham]

This is really unreasonable entitlement. Expecting perpetually free cloud services of any kind is wholely unreasonable. Clouds have monthly costs. The only reason companies like Apple can offer them is because they are very well capitalized. They offer them to addict you. Small companies and startups that don't have access to cheap capital cannot afford to do that, and it's much more honest for them to not do that!

[noir_lord]

Do they sell one that is functional without the cloud though.

I’m not buying any device that requires a paid subscription to a cloud to get full functionality since if that goes away so does the ability to use the device.

A policy that’s served me well having friends IRL who keep getting bitten by services/IoT changing/going away/end of life.

Sell me a functional product with a subscription and I’m interested, everything else, no way.

[cooperadymas]

They do have free cloud sync. It's capped based on the frequency of updating files rather than on a particular file size.

> Your notes will always be stored locally on your paper tablet, but only files used and synced online in the last 50 days will continue to be stored in the cloud and updated in our apps.

[kstrauser]

That’s a bizarrely low cap on a service with nearly zero marginal cost, and clearly meant to make you upgrade.

I load my Kobo with things like CACM issues and books I buy on sale and then flick through them at leisure when I’m on a plane or such. So now I can’t fetch the July journal issue because it’s aged out?

Nah, I’ll pass. It’s not controversial to say ReMarkable pushes you toward a paid plan. They’d even agree with that, I’m sure. It’s no great sin. Lots of things are subscription these days. It does mean I wouldn’t use it, though, because the non-rental alternatives are also pretty great.

[freedomben]

I largely agree, but I do think it's worth noting that they do actually have a screen sharing feature.

I don't use the screen sharing feature, and have no desire to use it, so it is quite irritating that they require the subscription to automatically sync my under a megabyte documents on the occasion that I need that.

Fortunately, it does still have Google drive integration which does not require a subscription. It does require a bit of manual work, but it's not bad

[kstrauser]

Does screen sharing go through their cloud service or is that a local device-to-device system, similar to AirPlay?

[JohnKemeny]

> "Even Apple"

Literally the company of all time with most money

[kstrauser]

That’s my point, though. People slag on them all the time for being cheapskates with their iCloud offerings. And even they give you a fully usable, unlimited feature iCloud account for free to sync all your devices together. I’m certain it costs way more per user to provide iCloud, with its constant syncing, than it costs ReMarkable to see if your PDFs are still up to date.

[Melatonic]

Topographic maps would be amazing for these but I doubt we see that anytime soon

[motbus3]

Nice to know. I was considering it but that is a deal breaker for me. I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the sold me.

[cooperadymas]

You can completely and fully use the device without any subscription. They only charge for the usage of their cloud services.

Remarkable has not "stolen" anything back which they sold.

On the contrary, they grandfathered in users which bought a device prior to their charging for a subscription so that they all have free access.

[mcphage]

> They only charge for the usage of their cloud services.

What features require usage of their cloud services?

[cooperadymas]

Primarily, syncing your documents between multiple Remarkable devices and their apps on your phone. The page on their site for it spells out everything pretty well.

https://remarkable.com/shop/connect

[motbus3]

I asked a friend who bought the new remarkable. He likes it but he says his old one was quite easy to link to google drive but the new one is not like that. Is it the same experience as you have?

[goku12]

> I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the[y] sold me.

That's an interesting way of describing that. Don't mind if I steal this quote for when I might need it. Messaging matters!

[motbus3]

If anyone complains say it was AI generated. Who cares about copyright nowadays right?

[goku12]

:D Sad, but funny!

[solarkraft]

FWIW I didn’t like the Boox experience: For writing you’re limited to the stock notes app, which I didn’t find usable: You can’t even zoom in it (something I thought would obviously be possible when choosing the smaller Nova 2). It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life.

[kybernetikos]

I've been using a boox note air for many years and you definitely can zoom on that.

Android is great for this use case because it lets me syncthing notes and use sheet music apps and use both kindle and kobo and calibre library and offline wikipedia and my own tools. As far as I'm concerned if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong, but android is a massive step above what everyone else is offering (i.e. none of that)

[solarkraft]

> because it lets me syncthing notes

I know this probably doesn’t exactly fit your use case, but I’ve actually been able to do this with a Kindle Touch (yes, from 2011)! It was a super serene experience to have your books synced over into KOReader.

> if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong

I agree, but I felt that’s what the system invited me to do (may just be my tinkerer genes though). Update notifications, etc, web browsing, hoops to jump through to share files ...

How‘s your note sync workflow? Can you reasonably easily and quickly access your handwritten notes from a laptop? Last I checked there was some manual export step to jump through.

[goosedragons]

What firmware do you have your Nova 2? The stock notes app has zoom as of 2024-01-03 at least. Not sure when that was added.

[solarkraft]

I haven’t used it much for a few years at this point, but it definitely wasn’t there when I bought it, making it a grossly unfinished product for my use case (taking notes - crazy on a device made for taking notes, right?).

Nice to know that it’s available now that I don’t really need it anymore.

[RMPR]

> It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life.

While some models have a disappointing battery life, it's most definitely because of BSR[0] not because of them running Android. I had a Note Air 3 and that thing got easily 2 weeks of battery life with heavy use while the BSR version (Note Air 3C) barely survived 2 days.

0: https://shop.boox.com/blogs/news/boox-super-refresh-bsr-tech...

[InsideOutSanta]

Yes, same. I have one that was grandfathered into the "no subscription" system, which means I can't buy another one (not sure if I will keep the ability not to have a subscription), and can't in good conscience recommend it to anyone else.

I do have a Boox Note Air4, which I bought with the intention of replacing the ReMarkable. On the plus side, it runs Android apps, but on the minus side, the UI is much less polished than the ReMarkable. Having said that, if I had the choice between the two, and weren't grandfathered into the no-subscription option, I would pick the Boox.

[jfim]

I believe the lifetime free subscription is an account setting, not a per device setting. If you go to my.remarkable.com and check the connect subscription page, it should say it's free as a reward for being an early customer.

You can also connect more than one device to the account nowadays.

[InsideOutSanta]

That's good to know, thank you very much!

[IamCanadian]

Yes. Your grandfather status will automatically carry over to your new device. I have purchased all the Remarkable units since day 1. My grandfather status has been in interrupted.

[KeplerBoy]

The boox indeed is nice.

These days I do quite a bit of field work outdoors (taking measurements, ssh'ing into mobile equipment) and a laptop is a chore to use in broad daylight. With the boox I can connect a bluetooth keyboard and install termux. It's not a perfect setup, but sure beats squinting at a dim screen.

[lvncelot]

Ha, I actually thought about getting a Boox when I started spending some time in my garden to work this summer cause of that exact same reason. Good to hear that it's actually feasible.

[hypercube33]

Both of you caught my curiosity so I went reading about these. On paper they seem perfect but it sounds like there are build quality issues and their warranty leaves a lot to be desired (reports of devices failing after months and warranty says it's $275 to fix, user fault) so I am steering clear.

[tpoacher]

Out of curiosity, what were the user hostile changes you mention?

[nosianu]

You got the cloud functions for free initially. Now you have to have a subscription. Mine is still free - the pre-order buyers were left with a free subscription after that change.

[hahn-kev]

Very frustrating because it hides syncing your data into 3rd party clouds, not just their priority one. So I can't sync with Google Drive without paying them, which is very weird.

[cooperadymas]

This is not the case.

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...

[JeremyNT]

I was under the impression that this isn't so much "sync" as it is just enabling manual file management with these services.

Is that incorrect?

[hn8726]

Isn't that an argument for Remarkable? You had the cloud functions for free and you've been grandfathered in. New buyers always knew that they'd need a subscription for that. Seems perfectly fair, even if you dislike the functionality (which is still very optional)

[cooperadymas]

Yes, this is the correct interpretation. I'm baffled how this is getting spun as a bad thing.

[nosianu]

I'm not complaining but explaining, answering the question.

[JeremyNT]

> One of the promises that lead me to buy one was the hackability - "It's Linux!" "You can SSH into it!", which, on paper (heh) is still true, but in practice very much isn't.

Can you expand on this a bit? Can't you still run third party software on the newer iterations?

[cooperadymas]

Yes. The Paper Pro (and presumably the Move) require you to explicitly enable developer mode in order to enable ssh access where older devices had it enabled by default. USB still works. It is, however, not easy to toggle dev mode on and off - so once you activate it you will probably keep it active.

[polskibus]

Which Boox in particular would you recommend?

[RMPR]

It mostly depends on your needs, the Note Air series is good if you are on the go while the bigger models like the Note Air Max are fit for a more stationary use.

[amelius]

The enshittification is everywhere ...