[scotty79]

Simple, you just need to turn language into a game.

You make models talk to each other, create puzzles for each other's to solve, ask each other to make cases and evaluate how well they were made.

Will some of it look like ramblings of pre-scientific philosophers? (or modern ones because philosophy never progressed after science left it in the dust)

Sure! But human culture was once there too. And we pulled ourselves out of this nonsense by the bootstraps. We didn't need to be exposed to 3 alien internet's with higher truth.

It's really a miracle that AIs got as much as they did from purely human generated mostly garbage we cared to write down.

[jebarker]

I feel like you’re glossing over some very thorny details that it’s not obvious we can solve. For example, if you just get two LLMs setting each other puzzles and scoring the others solutions how do you stop this just collapsing into nonsense? I.e. where does the source of actual truth come from for the puzzles?

[scotty79]

> I feel like you’re glossing over some very thorny details that it’s not obvious we can solve.

Yeah. I tried to be funny. It's not that easy. However AI people already started doing it and AI gains perhaps of the last year come mostly from this approach.

> For example, if you just get two LLMs setting each other puzzles and scoring the others solutions how do you stop this just collapsing into nonsense?

That's the trillion dollar question. I wonder how people are doing it. Maybe through economy? You ultimately need to sell your ramblings to somebody to sustain yourself. If you can't, you starve.

Maybe that's enough for AI as well? Companies with AIs that descended into nonsense won't have anymore money to train them further. Maybe companies will need to set up their internal ecosystems of competing AI training organizations and split the budget based on how useful they are becoming?

Phrasing this in a terminology of "truth" is probably counterproductive because there's no truth. There's only what sells. If you have customers in manufacturing probably things that sell will coincide with some physical truths, but this is emergent, not the goal or even part of the process or acquiring capabilities.

[hackinthebochs]

>And we pulled ourselves out of this nonsense by the bootstraps.

Human progress was promoted by having to interact with a physical world that anchored our ramblings and gave us a reward function for coherence and cooperation. LLMs would need some analogous anchoring for it to progress beyond incoherent babble.

[scotty79]

True, but LLMs got anchored to reality because we are using them in real world tasks and this connection will only grow richer, wider and faster.