[SilverElfin]

> No one is forcing parents to vaccinate your kids.

Yes, they are. If your kids are not allowed to attend school, then you are being forced to vaccinate them because you may not have other options. Claiming otherwise is gaslighting.

> It's just that in sane societies we say you can't use a public school if you're not vaccinated and otherwise healthy.

So do those parents get a voucher for the funds pertaining to their child’s public education, if they’re prevented?

[ViewTrick1002]

Are children the parents’ property or an individual we as a society should work to guarantee the best outcome?

Should parents be allowed to kill their property?

[fragmede]

Of course, we just don't agree on when it is acceptable. Between the ages of -.75 and -.50, it's generally legal to. Shifting the Overton window to make it legal for ages up to, say, 15, would be one for an ultra-left wing party to throw out there, just to disrupt the national conversation.

[SilverElfin]

[flagged]

[anigbrowl]

No they are not. If you abuse them you can be put in prison and unlike property you can't sell them or use them as collateral. Propertarian ideology is delusional.

[SilverElfin]

I used the word “property” in quotes because I am just repeating the word the earlier comment used. I’m not suggesting you can sell people. You’re attacking a strawman.

Regardless - my point stands that children belong first to the parents. Using words like “abuse”, which aren’t applicable to this situation at hand, is just a way to appeal to emotion rather than acknowledging that states taking over parental judgment is explicitly authoritarian.

[Tadpole9181]

Not giving your child medical care is abuse.

[SilverElfin]

It is for parents to judge what medical care is appropriate. You’re making it seem like everyone must consent to injecting whatever the government tells them, which is dystopian.

[anigbrowl]

They're very much applicable to the situation at hand. Abusive parents are a common enough phenomenon that it can't be handwaved away, and istm that abusive behavior is just taking this ownership idea to its logical conclusion, since there are few/no restrictions on exploiting or even destroying your own property as long as it doesn't impact others.

[SilverElfin]

Abusive parents are extremely rare. It should be hand waved away to give most parents the freedom to parent that they fundamentally deserve. Withholding a vaccine isn’t abuse - it’s just a legitimate decision to live differently and judge risks and benefits differently. What you’re arguing for is a highly controlled authoritarian culture with no room to think differently from the powers that be. Free societies value individual rights above societal ones exactly to avoid this basic authoritarian trap.

[zippothrowaway]

1) you ignored my main point about children who cannot be vaccinated. Way to go.

2) with regard to gaslighting, should parents be allowed to send their kids to public schools naked? What's the difference in compulsion?