[pawelos]

> The back-loaded vesting schedule is such blatantly cynical bullshit;

I don’t understand the complains about it. Amazon pays monthly cash ”sign-on bonus” in the first two years, which is ~ equal to the stock that you get in the years three and four (counting at the grant price). Is this fact not advertized well enough?

[marssaxman]

The "sign-on bonus" comes with serious strings attached. A good friend of mine got royally screwed when he mistook that bonus for real money, then got pushed to the point of burnout and had to leave; Amazon demanded a lot of the money back, but he didn't have it anymore.

[stormbeard]

I worked at Amazon in 2021 and rage-quit after 9 months. The sign-on bonus I received was paid out monthly, so I didn't have to pay anything back. If it's large enough, they pay it monthly because they know it's very likely you won't make it to the 2nd year.

[marssaxman]

Glad they've fixed that.

(Still, though - why work for people who know they're going to treat you so badly you'll probably have to quit?)

[scarface_74]

Well for me, I was already 46 when a recruiter from Amazon Retail reached out to me about an SDE (software development) position at Amazon Retail. They said it would require relocation after COVID (this was April 2020). I knew about Amazon’s reputation from both stories and my best friend who had worked as an L6 in the finance department.

There was no way in hell I was going to sell my house and uproot my life to work for Amazon. Then the recruiter after she kept talking suggests I interview for a “permanently remote” [1] “field by design” role at AWS ProServe. I thought sure why not?

The plan was always to make some money - I made over a quarter million more over 3.5 years than I could have made as an enterprise dev working in Atlanta - put AWS on my resume, gain some industry contacts and move on in four years.

I saw the writing on the wall shortly before my 3 year anniversary. I played the game well enough to get past my next vesting period and get my “bust your ass and try to work through your PIP or receive a $40K+ severance and ‘leave immediately’”.

I didn’t hesitate. I took the severance and already had two job offers lined up and had been waiting on the severance offer.

[1] They forced their “field by design” customer facing roles in the office at the end of last year. I would have left anyway before I ever went back into the office.

[ghaff]

Amazon doesn't seem to work out for a lot of people. I've tended to have long term jobs and probably wouldn't have been tempted to give them a shot.

[pawelos]

Sign-on bonus is prorated and payed monthly, you definitely don’t need to pay back anything (source: I worked at Amazon).

Maybe your friend talked about relocation bonus, which you need to pay back if you don’t work long enough.

[marssaxman]

My friend is a native-born Seattleite, so no, it was definitely not a relocation bonus.

Perhaps they recently changed their policies? I don't know, but it's not a risk I would want to take. Who would want to work for people who treated their coworkers like that?

[pawelos]

Alright, I did some quick research and it seems that they do sometimes pay full first year of sign-on bonus, which you need to repay (prorated). I didn’t see that that during my time at Amazon.

[pvtmert]

Ah, I just saw this, although I wrote a (much comprehensive) reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097345

The full payment that requires pro-rates is even worse. They expect you to pay it fully back. (ie. with the deducted taxes included!)

I bet it is possible to profit from a such scheme if Amazon is able to declare that as a reversed-transaction (similar to VAT-refunds) at the end of the fiscal year.

[stormbeard]

IIRC they pay it out monthly if the bonus is large enough.

[chihuahua]

I worked there in 2013 and had the signing bonus paid monthly. I thought it was great since I could work there as long as I could tolerate it (10 months) and leave without regrets about having to pay back anything. Decent cash comp so I feel I got a good deal.

[pvtmert]

I joined in 2022 from a different location, there were 2 kinds of comp in terms of bonues, each split into 2 other;

1. Relocation package a. Lump-sum (7k EUR): You get certain amount of money, and you deal with your own move yourself. (Albeit with some reimbursement possible for the initial trips) b. "Other" (I don't remember the name): More supportive option, good if you have family & furniture to move. They essentially pay everything for you. c. Important: The 7k EUR was subject to the tax, hence I got taxed at 55% (EU) due to having no tax residency at the moment (obviously). Nobody ever mentions this. But the re-payment is with the tax-included, ie. you are expected to pay 7k back! 2. Sign-on bonus: This splits into 2-year period a. 1st year: 50% of the total bonus, transferred to your bank account on your first work day. b. 2nd year: Each month, you get 1/12 of the remaining 50%, essentially something like ~4.18% each month on the second year. c. The 50%/50% ratio may depend on the team/role/location, I heard some of the L4s joined to the team got split of 40%/60% (ie less in the first year) for reasons unbeknownst to me.

Conditions are pretty simple, if you leave (for any reason), you must repay monthly-pro-rated amount that you haven't worked given the total period is 24-months. ie. In Luxembourg, probation is 6-months. (Until) at the end of the probation, Amazon can just fire you for no reason. In this case, since the 2nd year sign-on hasn't vested yet, nothing to pay from that, but you must pay 1/4th of your "relocation expenses" and full half of (ie untaxed full amount divided by 2) sign-on bonus you receive on your first day. (ie. 25% of the total sign-on bonus)

Firstly, I know someone (a Greek national) who left Amazon during his 12th Month. Amazon demanded total of 4k+ euros from the guy, citing he hasn't finished his 12th month, hence the first half of his relocation bonus plus the 1-month of pro-rated sign-on bonus, before tax. As far as I know, it was more or less equivalent to his monthly gross salary, and he paid in installments.

Secondly, I heard someone joined from non-EU country in 2023, and essentially got laid off. But because she was in probation and obviously worker rights are much stricter in EU, Amazon just declared her as a probation-failed case instead of layoff. (She also got laid off within last 2 weeks of her 6-months long probation). Since she only got the residence permit recently, not having more than a few months (when unemployed as a 3rd-country national), plus Amazon demanded money to be paid back. As far as I know she contacted an labour lawyer and they basically advised her to go back and not to pay anything back as it becomes an international matter. And the costs/fees for such is much higher than what would Amazon get it back, hence she did what was suggested. Although it obviously burns the bridges but in this case, Amazon started the fire first...

---

As a result, the practices applied here falls no short of what you can hear from the news. As the company has no heart or soul, people are just numbers in a balance-sheet...

[scarface_74]

Amazon does not demand your pro rated cash sign on bonus back that you get every pay period for the first two years.

Source: I worked at AWS from 2020-2023.

[marssaxman]

Glad to hear they fixed this broken policy.