[mattlondon]

Even in large cities like London there are huge areas where public transport is a joke. Yes it's fine in the very tourist center, but get out further from the center where normal people with families actually live and what is a 5-8 minute drive to a large grocery store becomes a mammoth 50-60 minute journey each way. I personally don't want to spend 15% of my waking day going to and from the shops and paying huge prices for public transport (and also struggle back carrying heavy bags) when I can pay pennies in electricity to drive there and back in a small fraction of the time. I can leave, do my shop, drive back (with heavy bags being carried by the car not my fingers!) and unpack and be sat down again and half way through a TV episode before I'd even have got there by public transport. And this is London where we have "good" public transport.

[mitthrowaway2]

It sounds like your public transport isn't actually good.

[bluGill]

No place in the world has good public transit then. Which is realistic I guess: fix your own area instead of looking down on others who are worse.

[mitthrowaway2]

I've been to cities large and small in Japan that had better transit than what you describe in London.

That's probably why they have so much ridership.

[bluGill]

I did not describe London...

mode share even in tokyo is only 51% - they have a lot of work they can do. That 51% is likely just going to work, cities rarely collect data for other trips but those matter and are places to work on.

[lucyjojo]

there are waaay less cars than people in tokyo.

most people do everything via public transport and/or bicycle.

https://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/10786

i mean none of the supermarkets close to my home have parkings... (they have a bunch of bike racks though).

there is 1 combini with a small ~6 spots parking that sits mostly empty. my building has more units than parking spots, there are a lot of bikes though.

in tokyo, having a car is not the default, you need a good reason.

now if you get out of tokyo (like gunma), it's another story, in japan they talk about "car society" (kuruma shakai). you'll see lots of cars, and big parkings.

[mattlondon]

This is the point I am trying to make.

Even somewhere which is lauded as having "good" public transport such as London and its actually not good in real life situations. Yes its great and all to visit London or Amsterdam or Berlin or whatever on vacation when you don't have Real Life (TM) responsibilities to worry about and you're only ever shuffling around the most central tourist areas and attractions with no real time pressures etc.

But realistically unless you put train lines literally everywhere there are roads now, and have non-stop trains shuttling around all day every day that turn up every 3 minutes, public transport is going to be terrible for day to day living for most people simply because it doesn't go where you need it to go, when you need it.

I think the 15 minute city proponents are deluding themselves. Yes it is a nice dream that everything is a 15 minute walk away (...presumably on a warm sunny day when you have no time pressures), but really when it comes down to actual day to day living its kinda ridiculous - so you're going to have offices, nurseries, primary schools, secondary schools, universities, doctors, dentists, hospitals, grocery stores, vets, hardware stores, gyms, libraries, churches, synagogues, mosques, cinemas, restaurants, bars, art galleries etc etc - all the things we need for day to day living and life in general - repeated every mile or two so that people can walk to them within 15 mins?

That is absurd.

You just cant have that density of things like major hospitals or universities for example. Ah but then we add public transport links they say! But then you're back to where we are currently with a "good" public transport system actually being expensive and a pain in the ass to use because it can't be a direct link to every single possible place in the urban graph so it ends up meaning in reality you walk 5-10 minutes to reach a stop, wait 5-10 minutes for something to turn up, pay £3.50 to ride for 10-15 minutes, potentially change buses or train/metro/tram lines (including the 5-10 minute wait for that to arrive), get out, walk another 5-10 minutes etc, when if you had just driven it would have taken 5 minutes and you don't need to carry back 18kg of groceries on the return journey that also costs you £3.50 as well and also takes just as long except now everyone else on the bus/train/tram hates you because you're taking up the space of 4 passengers with your shopping bags and you're banging into them. And let's not even start with the weather.

[lucyjojo]

tokyo contradicts your statement.

[mattlondon]

How? No roads and only rail everywhere? Point-to-point transport that cost pennies? No waits for things to arrive?

Tokyo with it's huge sprawl seems like the absolute antithesis of a 15 minute city.

[lucyjojo]

for first, most people do not own cars and do everything via public transport/bicycle.

plus. it is often faster to use public transport than using a car, and cheaper...

supermarkets, grocery stores, hospitals, offices, appartments have generally no or little parking spots.

you will have to find dedicated parking spots which are pretty expensive, and will in fine have you walk around as if you were going to the station...

oh and yes, as i mentioned before lots of apartments don't have parking spots, so you will have to walk some to get to your car, and you will have to pay a hefty sum to rent the parking spot.

there are dentists/hairdressers/grocery stores/restaurants pretty much everywhere in tokyo. use google maps and try by yourself you will see.

people haul their stuff by hand or with their bikes.

people who don't have a very specific reason to own cars simply don't... there is no point. the building where i live has way less car parking spots than units (and it is illegal to own a car without a dedicated parking spot in japan).

people who have cars are generally one of: - do not actually live in tokyo - go in and out of tokyo often - need for work (cargo) - hobby / family need (haul a lot of stuff regularly or enjoy driving)

i'm specifically talking of tokyo, outside of tokyo you will find lots of parking spots and cars.