[keiferski]

Yes, thank you. A huge percentage of historical European immigration to the US was by groups that functionally had zero wealth or social mobility in their home countries. Working in a steel mill in the new world was hell, but it beat generational rural poverty back home.

The hyper-individualism of modern America is something that has developed fairly recently, even if it had earlier roots.

[hollerith]

You cannot read the Founding Fathers without noticing that Americans were quite individualistic (and mistrustful of governmental power) from the start of the country. Till about 1910, there was no Federal income tax because it was believed by most Americans that it would be unconstitutional (i.e., an illegal encroachment of the individual's right to keep all the money he or she earns). Ditto any Federal ban on heroin or cocaine, both big social problems.

[keiferski]

Individualism in the contemporary sense is not the same thing as skepticism of governmental power circa 1780.

Income taxes as a concept weren't really adopted, globally, until the mid-1800s through the early 1900s. So I don't think skepticism of them is inherently an American individualist thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax#Timeline_of_intro...

And as I already wrote:

> The hyper-individualism of modern America is something that has developed fairly recently, even if it had earlier roots.

America circa 1950 or 1900 had much stronger social bonds in local communities, families, etc. The current hyper-individualism is more a consequence of the last third of the 20th century, not anything inherently American.

Of course, one might make the argument that this was some kind of inevitable outcome due to a seed in the American psyche, but I don't really buy that argument.

[hollerith]

The 1960s was when the US got welfare and SSI (disability insurance for people who haven't already paid into the Social Security system).

Being able to rely on these governmental benefits might have made families less reliant on the local community, churches and extended family, which in turn might have caused daily life to feel more alienating or atomized.

I bring this up because welfare and SSI can be viewed as a move towards collectivism and away from individualism, so arguing about how individualistic the US has been over time is kind of a sterile game because the answer is highly dependent on the exact definition of individualism.

[rayiner]

> I bring this up because welfare and SSI can be viewed as a move towards collectivism and away from individualism

Yes, this is an excellent point.