[sfpotter]

Here in Seattle, public school teachers would not have even the most basic cost of living adjustments without the union. And they have to bargain strenuously to get even the meager COLA they are able to get. If the unions were dissolved the schools would be a significantly worse state than they are now, which is saying something.

[SilverElfin]

From what I found in a quick search, it seems like Seattle public school teachers effectively get more than a 5% raise each year when you average it. That’s a lot higher than the typical worker’s situation, so it doesn’t seem like they’re getting something meager. Articles also seemed to imply that these raises they demanded would make the city’s budget not work.

Regardless - how do you feel about what you’re getting in return? What’s your opinion on the quality of Seattle teachers and the schools there overall?

[toomuchtodo]

Your average worker is getting raked over the coals, so those doing well should not be compared to them because the organized have better pay and benefits. No union, no power to improve your pay, working conditions, and labor protections.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions...

https://www.epi.org/publication/eroded-collective-bargaining...

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

[sfpotter]

In Seattle, 5% is meager considering what tech workers here make. If you work as a teacher in the city of Seattle, you're likely looking at ~$100K/year, after at least a few years of experience, and assuming you have a masters degree with the requisite endorsements. So, lots of debt on top of that. Note that there are many other support staff in the schools who make significantly less but who do jobs which are no less important. If your spouse makes a similar amount, the likelihood you can own your own home unless you're phenomenally frugal and careful with your money is low. I have multiple friends who are city of Seattle teachers and they've been priced out of the city, by and large.

My opinion is that the teachers should be paid more and people in the city should be taxed far higher than they are. I attended Seattle public schools K-12 myself, and the older I get (now in my late 30's with a kid of my own), virtually all problems they face can be addressed by better compensation. All the teachers I know are kind, well-meaning people who do their best despite facing an adverse situation. Teaching has gotten significantly more difficult since COVID. In Seattle in particular, high income families have tended to pull their kids out of public schools and put them in private schools, where paying upwards of $50-60K/year isn't uncommon. Because of the ways public schools are funded in the state, this essentially operates as a zero sum game.

[sentinelsignal]

imo i never really understood why teachers were so underpaid all over the world. Considering the fact that they play a key role in society

[sfpotter]

In the US, I think it's a combination of broad-based anti-intellectualism and scorn for those who do care or service work. "Those who can't do, teach" is a phrase that's ingrained in most young people. I think many people harbor the belief that they can do teachers' jobs better, and I think the low pay seriously exacerbates this issue. When the pay is low, when schools are desperate for employees, and when you have too-stringent tenure system in place (it can be very hard to let senior public school teachers go), then you do end up with lackluster teachers. Continuing with Seattle as an example, when you have tech workers with serious academic credentials interacting with teachers who could easily make 1/10th their annual total compensation, and who may very well have far less impressive credentials, there can be an understandable sense of anger, frustration, resentfulness, etc.

I really think the solution is to pay way more. I have a math background: I did a very prestigious postdoc at one of the best applied math institutions in the world. I love teaching. If I could get paid at least $150k/year to teach high school math in the Seattle public school systems, I would jump at the opportunity. I think a lot of other people would, too. If you create the opportunity for exemplary people with superlative backgrounds to teach and to inspire young people, it will easily burnish the reputation of the schools and create a virtuous cycle enabling their improvement.

[sentinelsignal]

Hm i see. And in a situation that i see someone mentioned that there were plenty of teachers but aren't able to be funded adequately or were attracted to the new better wages. Seems like a tough situation that I'm not sure has a solution.

[Ekaros]

Well they have relatively low productivity and there is lot of them. Basically society can't afford to pay lot to them.

[Tarsul]

They are not underpaid in Germany (I'd guess top 20-30% of German income) and probably other European countries.

[sfpotter]

This is truly a wonderful thing. I hope you all appreciate how lucky this is and protect the institutions enabling this.

[nunez]

Facts. See the pay scales for any public teaching position in the South. Garbage.