[lovich]

> Role power is by far the least effective.

Eh, maybe at faangs or at the executive level but at non faangs you might not notice a role having power because most roles with the Manager title are no longer actual managers but supervisors.

I had more agency over where capital was deployed as a teenager deciding how many people were going to be on the shift for closing, then I have making over 200k/yr as a Senior Manager.

Any role that has decision making power over where money goes automatically has a massive amount more power than a role that does not

[JustExAWS]

The article is mostly about first level managers. I’ve never had any “manager” that really has any power over raises more than 3-4% or any real control over budgets.

When I was being hired as a strategic hire for startups - and was being interviewed by the director or CTO - I specifically asked would I be reporting directly to them or another manager. I actually refused one job because I saw that the expectations they had from me and how far I was down in reporting structure was incongruous.

[lovich]

>The article is mostly about first level managers

Maybe for faangs. At every company I have worked at with a manger title from 2019 to present, this was expected of people with "director" in their title and below.

You are not a manager if you do not get to decide where capital is deployed, without your boss's approval.

For anyone reading this comment, if you think you are a manager, ask yourself this question

"If I decided tomorrow that the company would be better off if I hired someone to do role {X}, can I open a new req for that role without permission?"

If the answer is no, you are a supervisor with less agency than the a Walmart deli leader circa 2010

[icedchai]

I've worked at places where the "senior executives" couldn't do any of these things without CEO approval. Even if they claimed to "have budget" for something, it still needed sign off.

There's tons of title inflation out there, especially at smaller firms.

[sokoloff]

I think the common vernacular for that cutoff is “director” rather than “manager”.

Directors direct (including opening hiring reqs without higher-level approval).

Managers manage (which doesn’t include unreviewed role openings).

Both do useful work in a well-functioning company.

[lovich]

You do not manage if you do not have agency. Modern day “managers” are supervisors making sure their directors or executives management plans are going according to plan, and if anything requiring money or headcount is needed to get the plan back on track, once again the director or executive needs to make that decision.

I was not joking about the roles having less agency than a Walmart deli supervisor. I had more say in how the work was done in that role, than I have at any software company while I had the word “managers” in my title

[Ferret7446]

> I had more agency over where capital was deployed as a teenager deciding how many people were going to be on the shift for closing, then I have making over 200k/yr as a Senior Manager.

But the value of the capital you had sway over as a 200k manager is significantly higher. You have to accept that you won't ever have total agency over 7+ digits worth of both human and non-human capital if you're not a VP/CEO (or a fintech bro I guess).