[bigyabai]

When you say "society at large" I think you're only describing Israeli society. The American sentiment towards Israel is eroding rapidly and worldwide there has always been an attitude of distrust and dishonesty (especially post-Dimona). Even internally, US intelligence has long known they aren't getting the straight dope from Israel. Today's situation is a breaking point of Israeli design.

> unprovoked

Not unprovoked whatsoever. Hamas' terrorism is what Israeli politicians chose, instead of recognizing PLO leadership: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

[pinewurst]

Changing American sentiment towards Israel is hardly attributable to mobs marching with pictures of the Ayatollah (Sydney Harbor Bridge 8/8/25) or fanatics harassing/vandalizing Microsoft (or Brooklyn Museum) employees’ homes.

[SilverElfin]

What’s the “straight dope”? That Gazans voted Hamas into power despite the disgusting stuff they stood for? That the land Islamic Arabs are on is univocally Jewish land historically and that there is no such identity as Palestinian?

American sentiment towards Israel is eroding yes, but due to ignorance and anti semitism, not some kind of moral high ground. Hamas’s terrorism is a result of their own people’s choices.

[throw310822]

> Gazans voted Hamas into power

I thought Israel was "the only democracy in the Middle East"? I see this is quickly forgotten when convenient.

Besides, Israel us a democracy and at this point people sees and understands that whatever crime Hamas is responsible for, Israel has perpetrated it first and tens or hundreds of times more.

[SilverElfin]

It is indeed the only democracy. But Gaza had a democratic process at one point. They voted Hamas into power. And then Hamas got rid of elections. So their crimes are the fault of Gazans, not Israel. That’s leaving aside the fact that there are no people named “Palestinians”.

[bigyabai]

> It is indeed the only democracy.

But only after the CIA and Mossad overthrew Iranian democracy and installed SAVAK as a torture cell to massacre any dissenters.

[scarecrowbob]

If you live in the US, I hope whatever god you pray to keeps you from becoming responsible for the crimes of the folks who rule you.

[wredcoll]

> univocally Jewish land historically

lol. How does this work, exactly? Who is the historic owner of the land your house stands on?

[SilverElfin]

> How does this work, exactly?

Jewish people lived in that region before any other groups from today did. There’s no controversy around this - it is broadly recognized historical fact.

[wredcoll]

This sentence is so far from reality I'm not sure it even counts as incorrect.

First of all, what exactly is a "jewish people"? People who obey the jewish god? People who say they do? People who self-identify as jewish? People who were born in a specific region of the world?

And once we've sufficiently pinned down the definition of "jewish people" in the year 100 b.c.e, you need to demonstrate what relationship those people have with people living in the year 2025 c.e. Are they supposed to be like, the great-great-great etc grand children or something?

And beyond that, why would it even matter if they were? Even if you could somehow time travel and come up with some kind of direct meaningful chain of ancestry from someone who lived in israel-region 2000 years ago and someone who moved to israel-region in the year 1950 or whatever, why would it matter?

Every single human currently on earth is the child of someone, who is the child of someone else, all of which goes back literally the entirety of human history, are we supposed to trace all of our ancestries and lay claim to things that people we share genetics with from 2000 years ago also owned?

And why do we stop our historical tracing at a specific time period? Why do we trace back this history to the time when there was a jewish kingdom in the region and then stop right there? Why don't we go back before that? What about the people who originally owned the land before the jewish kingdom did? Are they allowed to show up and claim israel for themselves?