[kjkjadksj]

Why don’t they invest in other sectors though vs doubling down? Tobacco companies, famously unscrupulous, did just this, saw the writing on the wall and now make their money off zyn and vapes vs trying to swim upstream selling traditional tobacco products. Seems to me an oil company has enough resources where they can out invest most any green vc outright and dominate the marketshare if they were so inclined.

This is playing out like the hubris film companies had towards digital sensors. Seems they don’t teach history in MBA programs I guess.

[griffzhowl]

It's probably to do with vape companies still needing nicotine, and so the tobacco companies still control the primary source, so they can gain the advantages of vertical integration from buying up the downstream offshoots. Non-fossil fuel sources of energy by definition have different primary sources of energy than those controlled by fossil fuel companies, so they can't capitalize in the same way.

Btw, I looked up Juul from your other comment and saw they're 35% owned by Altria (formerly Philip Morris) who are "one of the world's largest producers and marketers of tobacco, cigarettes, and medical products in the treatment of illnesses caused by tobacco." [1]

You couldn't hope for a more tragically hilarious summation of the cynicism in this industry than that combination of businesses to be in

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altria

[singleshot_]

Respectfully, because I agree with you, I would like to suggest that you look up Mission Winnow next and let me know whether you believe “you couldn’t hope for a more tragically hilarious summation of the cynicism in this industry” held up as an accurate statement.

[danans]

> Why don’t they invest in other sectors though vs doubling down?

Control and relevance. These things matter to them as much as profit.

The barrier to entry to produce renewables is lower than fossil fuels - there is no natural oligopoly.

If you own your house, you can put solar on your roof and a battery on your house, and dramatically cut back on your fossil fuel derived energy needs. Communities can do the same, as can utilities and independent businesses.

That's a future where fossil fuel companies are far less relevant. Not irrelevant, but nothing like what they were. That future may be unavoidable, but they are trying to delay its arrival as much as they can. While that may seem like an anathema to many (including me), put yourself in the shoes of a major investor in or executive at a fossil-fuel company, and you might do the same.

[bryanlarsen]

Many oil companies did try. For example BP's "Beyond Petroleum" initiative was more than greenwashing (although it was also greenwashing).

Those initiatives failed due to short-termism, infighting, failure to commit sufficient resources, et cetera.

[kjkjadksj]

And yet solar and wind grow hand over fist internationally. One would think they would want to buy out some of these emerging companies in this sector and take advantage of the inevitable increasing investment and profit potential in this sector. Every other industry seems the investor class is elbowing and charging to get there first and secure marketshare e.g. ai but you just don’t see that sort of chomping at the bit with green technology for whatever reason. Seems so strange considering the entire world will need to be retooled and the money that stands to be made is so enormous. Probably more money that has been made in oil so far by several orders of magnitude thanks to parallel investments in other sectors and technologies that weren’t around when oil got its start 150 years ago.

[ZeroGravitas]

Wind and solar grew as industries, but solar in particular is regarded as a tough business to be in because new entrants keep making better and cheaper solar panels leading to cutthroat competition.

That's a very different skill set than gaining access to scarce mineral resources and monopolising them to extract maximum profit.

Some subcontractors may have transferrable skills e.g. offshore boat crews but at a high level the two industries are fairly incompatible.

It doesn't help that the fossil companies have succeeded in using politics to salt the ground of their potential new ventures at home. A real burn the boats moment for them.

[XorNot]

That's because there's nothing to buy. China dumped a ton of money into the sector and took full advantage of their tightly integrated manufacturing capacity to bootstrap it.

The US looked at that and said "let's tax raw material imports" and half the population is too stupid to realize that they're the ones paying those taxes.

EDIT: it should be noted this is hardly a criticism of China's strategy here- they wanted an industry they saw potential in, subsidized it and bought IP which other countries offered up, and reaped the rewards. They just literally played capitalism better.

[Workaccount2]

Solar has been growing predominately because the Chinese government is willing to lose billions in subsidies to panel manufacturers.

[ZeroGravitas]

Tobacco companies mostly just pivoted to targetting weaker nations, e.g. this summary from a study looking at price elasticity:

> The tobacco industry undermines tobacco control efforts in low-income countries and targets vulnerable populations through aggressive marketing and lobbying for less tobacco control and lower taxes.

Unfortunately for fossil fuels most of the world are importers of their products which makes them a tough sell as other options become cheaper.

[Zigurd]

Easier said than done. Legacy social media is dying, and Meta has plenty of resources to create products in and monetize other product sectors. And yet...

If what you know is how to pull oil out of the ground, and build multi billion dollar rigs to do it, that's your sector.

[XorNot]

Meta posted increased revenues last year. Social media isn't growing like it used to, but that doesn't mean there's not plenty of blood left in the stone.

Plus you'll never find a better multiplier then software and consumer spending.

[kjkjadksj]

It isn’t like the tobacco companies knew any different. They just opted to buy Juul which they could do with their massive cash reserves. Their own efforts (blu?) failed. As the saying goes, those who can’t do, buy.