[ceejayoz]

This talking point is years out of date. We’re doing grid-level energy storage already. Expect more.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-06/what-australia-can-le...

> For the first time ever, California's batteries took over gas as the primary source for supplying evening power demand in April, providing "akin to the output from seven large nuclear reactors" one evening, according to the New York Times.

[Moldoteck]

It's not out of date. BESS has different utility in different weather areas. Germany would need the equivalent of 20-30y of global bess deployments to ditch fossils, not considering realistic power transfer or weather forecast. That's why even their pro ren Fraunhofer ISE recommended gas expansion

[ceejayoz]

> Germany would need the equivalent of 20-30y of global bess deployments to ditch fossils

“In 2019, California had 770 megawatts of battery storage. Now, it's 14 times higher, at 10,383 megawatts, and by the end of this year, it expects to add another 3,800.”

We saw the same curve with solar and wind. 20-30 years worth today will be peanuts in the near future. You’ve outlined a very achievable goal.

[Moldoteck]

If you think 2-3TWh for a single country, assuming ideal conditions and no demand growth is an achievable goal, welp

[akvadrako]

These batteries last a few minutes when they are fully charged. In the winter it's not unusual to have close to zero wind power for a few days and it could come after a few weeks of lower output, so they aren't fully charged.

You'll notice in your article they are almost always talking about power instead of energy because energy is the problem.

We still need about 100 - 1000x improvements to rely on batteries without reliable power plants, depending on how much the generation capacity is overbuilt.

[plantain]

If only we could model how frequently there was zero wind and whether that calculates with zero solar. Oh wait, we can, and we do. It's not even hard.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/a-near-100-per-cent-renewables-g...

In reality we will still have a lot of fossil generation which will make it 'easier'.

[qcnguy]

The recent full blackout in Iberia was caused by renewables destabilizing the grid, and the fossil plants were cold so couldn't save the day. Having fossil plants is of no use if they were mandated by the government to turn themselves off.

[defrost]

The causes were complex interactions and the October report has not yet been released.

There are numerous camps with strong impassioned and conflicting arguments as to cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Iberian_Peninsula_blackou...

[qcnguy]

The grid operator did release a report, and it stated that the problem was desynchronization of a solar farm, followed by more frequency destabilization as they tried to combat the first problem, followed by a panicked attempt to bring gas plants back online but they weren't available. They'd been switched off to make way for solar and would have taken hours to warm up.

The only sense in which there are conflicting arguments, is that the leftist Spanish government read the above report and concluded that it was the fault of the gas plants for not being available when they were needed. Because they were switched off. Because of their own policies. This is not an argument that deserves genuine consideration.

[defrost]

It's been 20+ years since I worked in a state power control facility, it seems from your comment that you've never done such a thing; they're more complex than your comment suggests.

The preliminary report was exactly that, preliminary off the cuff listing of things that might cause issues with no definitive conclusion .. hence the need for longer consideration and a final report.

> the leftist Spanish government

Drop the politics and act like an Engineer (civil, electrical)

> the fault of the gas plants for not being available when they were needed. Because they were switched off.

It's routine across the globe to bring power generation facilities on and off, and spin them up in anticipation of need - this incident is a failure of a control algorithm regardless of politics.