[doug713705]

And people with children cannot understand what it is to live a whole life in full freedom. I'm over 50 years old and I fully love my life as it is and have never regretted my choice of not having children (and never will).

Not that my choice is suitable for everybody, but the most common choice is not suitable for everybody either.

[close04]

This is a matter of personal preference of course. But the way you phrased it, "a whole life in full freedom" tells me you think it's either all or nothing. If you can't enjoy the full freedom in the last years of your life, does it take away from the previous years?

For better or worse people with kids know both lives, people without kids only know one. It's like saying "you'll never know how it is to eat an entire cake". Maybe you ate much of it, that counts for something. Now you're on to the next cake. You might bite more than you can chew but this goes for everything.

The value of this freedom is the highest when you're young, experimenting, putting your life on some track. Being "free" at 65 doesn't have anywhere near the same value as it does at 20. Once you do it (almost) all, everything else becomes more of the same doesn't it? That cake I was mentioning? The first bite tasted a whole lot better than the last.

There's no right or wrong, everyone knows their preference and personal circumstances. But your explanation felt like a knee-jerk reaction.

[monero-xmr]

Hard disagree, I lived my life without children, the hedonism and lack of responsibility. And you can live this until death. And I didn’t discount such a life in my writing. I stated that having children fundamentally changes you, in a way you will never understand

[TheOtherHobbes]

Given State of World, my take on it is there's far more hedonism and irresponsibility in having kids.

It's nice they make you happy, but will their lives be happy?

The evidence says it's very unlikely.

My choice is not to inflict that experience on another sentient being. I'm really not seeing anything at the moment that encourages me to question that.

[close04]

> Given State of World, my take on it is there's far more hedonism and irresponsibility in having kids.

Compared to what? We're living in some of the best times humanity as a whole ever had. Deciding en-masse to not have kids is the irresponsible thing because it literally condemns humanity to extinction and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're cursing the world because you stubbed your toe. Social media inflicted this kind of feeling a lot over the last couple of decades.

> but will their lives be happy?

You'd have to ask them. Humans overwhelmingly choose to live so you could conclude that they prefer existing over the alternative. Happiness is very relative and you'd have a hard time defining it even for yourself, let alone for your hypothetical unborn child.

> The evidence says it's very unlikely.

There's absolutely no evidence to support anything you said. It's your personal preference and you're entitled to it. Why don't you own your choice instead of putting it on fictitious evidence that your unborn child will be unhappy?

> My choice is not to inflict that experience on another sentient being

Whatever you pick you're making that choice for you, not for them.

[bombcar]

And at least in my experience, children do not get existential despair about the state of the world until adulthood, unless it is given to them from outside forces.

Children don't know the world exists beyond their town until they're instructed on it!

[ptero]

For a different perspective: the world today is not perfect, but when I compare the current state of the world with how our ancestors lived from the Roman empire to the last century I think my kids have a high chances to do much better than that average.

My direct ancestors lived through some harrowing times without losing their will to live and if they were alive today they would likely feel this is a great time to be alive. My 2c.

[bombcar]

And the very act of hope that having kids is (and it is a strong act of hope, no denial) changes your outlook on life and the state of the world, too.

Sometimes to more abject despair, but often to more hope.

People shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to have children, but they also shouldn't be dragged down into insecurity and despair that it's financially impossible.

[stinkbeetle]

It will be "inflicted" on other people whether you choose it or not.

People and cultures that don't want children will give way to those who do.

[monero-xmr]

You can choose to end your bloodline, and your opinion is the human race should go extinct now like a race of eunuchs have taken over. But I could personally not disagree more

[AlexeyBelov]

Eww, wtf is this comment?

[jajko]

Sure we do, not everybody got married and got kids at 20.

And I mean proper life, backpacking for months around south east asia, himalaya, diving in remote tropical islands, doing extreme mountain sports to the fullest capacity. You know, stuff that adds easily many decades of life actually experienced.

It doesnt compare, it cant.

But there is a catch - to have a chance for actually being a good long term stable parent (and also having and raising kids in a similar way), 2 balanced individuals need to meet and be close to each other on many levels, and then keep working on it. Something I dont see often around me unfortunately in these me-me-me times, with corresponding consequences. Better having no kids than be a miserable parent, raising another miserable generation of permanent cripples.

Just wait till you hit 60s and the pool of nice things you can do keeps shrinking dramatically, I've heard such phrases before and then heard regrets some time later.

[holoduke]

I can understand. I have 4 small kids. The amount of freetime us near zero. I can sometimes envy your life

[bombcar]

As a fellow manyKid™ enjoyer I know what you mean. Even your "free time" is guided and directed by kids, and when you DO get some time alone with the wife or a good friend, you talk about the kids.

It really is a change that's not quite possible to convey with words.