[d0gsg0w00f]

But they were first to market. That's 90% of the work. There's a huge gap between "perfect unrealized idea" and "shit you can actually buy". Hate the man all you want, he'll go down in history as the Edison of electric vehicles, even though others will undoubtedly surpass the initial public offering technologically.

[cramsession]

The claim was that Musk's companies will "win" though, and they aren't (aside from the irrational valuation). Maybe Space X is winning, but Tesla is a minor player in the auto market with declining revenue.

[dghlsakjg]

First to what market?

Electric cars have been sold since the 1800s (electric vehicles predate the 4-cycle internal combustion engine). Chrysler, Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota all had serial production of EVs in the 1990s or earlier. The land speed record holder in 1900 was an electric vehicle. Tesla wasn't first, they were relatively late, they just got it right in a number of ways.

Self driving? Maybe, but there is a lot of argument about whether a Tesla is self driving. Based on the fact that Tesla themselves require a human driver ready to intervene, it isn't a credible claim.

[d0gsg0w00f]

Of course others were first to the technology, but you can't argue with Tesla being first to get EVs in the hands of everyday consumers. That's the market part of "first to market".

[dghlsakjg]

That is exactly what I'm arguing. "Everyday consumers" have had access to production electric vehicles since the 1800s.

Tesla provably weren't "first to market" as I pointed out. Anyone could have bought an EV in 1900, more than a full century before Tesla existed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Vehicle_Company).

Anyone could have bought one in the 1990s too.

Tesla was not first to market in any way. They became so popular that they have come to define the market in many people's minds, but there were mass market electric vehicles before Tesla made them. The Nissan Leaf was available for years before the Model S. Nissan had the first lithium battery vehicles in the 1990s.

I don't know why you are trying to martyr yourself on this hill. Being first to market rarely matters, despite what tech circles believe. The iPod, iPhone, Facebook, and Tesla were all followers in their respective markets, but have since become defining products.

At this point, even if we - for some reason - accept that Tesla was first to market with the Roadster, it isn't proving to be a lasting advantage. BYD is selling more electric cars than them starting last year, a trend that has gone into hyperdrive this year as Tesla sales go negative for the 2nd year in a row while BYD continues to dominate.

[wombatpm]

Turns out Edison was a jerk like Elon as well. At least according to Tesla.

[d0gsg0w00f]

Exactly my point