[throwawaylaptop]

If a US made Bolt is $1, and a Chinese one is $0.50, I buy Chinese. If now the Chinese bolt is $1, I buy American. If China tries to reduce the price of their bolt to $0.40, making it $0.80 for me, I still buy American because of quality and speed and reputation and returns, and more. So China makes the Bolt $0.25, I pay $0.50, and all is back to normal.

Yes I technically paid the tariff.... Except really China lost money, the US gained money, and I paid the same because that's the price difference required for me to buy Chinese.

Will it always work out like this? Idk. But this is what they are referring to when saying the exporter will pay it in the end.

[psyklic]

In actuality, the Chinese company can't half their prices. So instead of paying $0.50 for a Chinese bolt, consumers now will pay $1.00.

Unfortunately the US bolts will not be plentiful enough. They'll also have to import steel to meet new demand, increasing their price. So ultimately you'll still buy the Chinese product but it will now cost double the price -- $1.00 after tarrifs. Hence the price of everything that has a bolt will increase.

[throwawaylaptop]

Why can't they? You think Chinese products are priced to perfection via competition? Or maybe their government had a hand in it, or they learned to price to what the market will pay.. I guess we'll find out... Either it'll be what makes sense to me, or what some writer told you.

[psyklic]

Sure, let's suppose they go down some. For the same reasons you'll still end up paying more for the same Chinese products, which will raise domestic prices.

[churchill]

Except, the price difference will be more like $1 for the Chinese product & $20-40 for the American product. The Chinese have tremendous scale that no one else can really compete with. Some factory floors have rows of thousands of workers assembling just one stuff. Maybe pressing irons, kitchen utensils, knives, etc. Their wages are significantly lower, so you just can't compete.

There's a video on YouTube now of a manufacturer that tried to onshore his grill scrubber product. Couldn't find the components, no matter how he tried, and ended up subsisting with Indian parts, probably laundered from China, with a complementary markup of course.

The way Americans talk about these tariffs show you don't know what it takes to build a strong manufacturing economy. For decades, China has suppressed their workers' wages, diluting their wealth to transfer it to Western buyers as cheap good. They've invested in scale, building factories worth hundreds of billions, which often don't make profits for years on end.

In America, every CEO has to show a stock bump by the end of the quarter of get tossed.

If you take the logic of tariffs to their natural conclusion, why not farm your own corn, raise your own beef, pick your cotton, etc. Specialization is the reason why we can enjoy abundance because things get made where it's cheapest and then get shipped to you. The average American waiting tables at a restaurant makes more than the Chinese working the manufacturing jobs you're trying to get back, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

In summary, America doesn't know what it's doing. Those of us who come from countries who put excessive tariffs on everything, know that it never leads to local production, but serves as just another government revenue channel. But what do I know?

[throwawaylaptop]

We do make our own beef and our own corn. But beyond that, even at my house we make our own lemons (2 trees), tomatoes (60 plants), grapefruits (6 trees), and then process and freeze enough to last as long as possible. Because the stuff you can buy in stores is a fraction of the quality you get from home if you know what you're doing.

If only this specialization was focused on making good products instead of making 3% more money.

[churchill]

So, is it feasible for all Americans families to grow their own food like you do?

[throwawaylaptop]

Maybe not, but it's a good goal and if someone implemented a plan to make it more common I would be for it.

[churchill]

Americans willingly stopped farming their own food because it's more economical for farmers to grow in bulk and sell for a little profit. The only way to make more people farm their food would be by government compulsion.

Why would you want that?

And any time they spend growing their own food is time they don't spend on some other economic activity they're obviously better at.

[throwawaylaptop]

Why would we want that? Because the food is substantially better quality and healthier.

And the time? We do this in our spare time outside of full time jobs. But you're right, it does cut into our Netflix, tv, YouTube, Facebook time.

[epolanski]

Most Chinese manufacturing is done by robots. China is by far the biggest installer of robots in industry too. They install more than the entire world combined.

[robocat]

Good imperial bolts.

Does the US make the machines that make the bolts any more?

And what if you needed metric bolts?

"I Tried To Make Something In America (The Smarter Scrubber Experiment)" https://youtu.be/3ZTGwcHQfLY talks about the trouble he had finding US made bolts and I seem to remember he found out he'd been scammed and was sold Chinese bolts anyway? (Edit: Skip to around 17m35s)

[brandall10]

Sure, we can argue all the we want as to who 'pays', but the ultimate goal is to apply pressure to the importer to take another route.

[throwawaylaptop]

Or for take back some of the profits from the exporter.. China has had enough money to develope roads and buildings and companies way beyond what the US has seen in the same time frame. We don't need to allow them to make as much as they have been.

[theshackleford]

> We don't need to allow them to make as much as they have been.

I feel the same way about the US which is why I won’t spend money on media or software, and encourage others to follow a similar path.

As you insinuate, it’s just logical because the US has had enough money, way beyond my country you see.

[throwawaylaptop]

Of course, if a poorer country is sending their money to a richer country for things they can make at home or get from somewhere else, they would be pretty dumb.

[nosioptar]

> Will it always work out like this?

Nope. Bolt price goes up. I can't afford it, and don't buy anyone's bolt. Both the American dude I'd buy it from and the Chinese dude that makes it lose money.