[asoneth]

Nontechnical folks are fine using a computer until they're not, at which point they need to find someone with more experience or become someone with more experience. Many Windows or Mac users rely on a combination of paid support and friends/family with computer experience. But few people know someone with Linux experience, and fewer still know how to get paid Linux support. That's why every story of a nontechnical person running Linux seems to include a Linux enthusiast friend or family member in the background.

> older people simply aren't interested in or capable of learning new things

I agree that people of all ages can be interested and capable of learning new things, even something as dry as learning how to administer a computer. And Linux is a great option for someone who actually wants to learn more about operating systems.

But the overwhelming majority of people who use a computer use it as a tool to do things, like keep in touch with family members, listen to music, write a book, read the news, look up tutorials, draw, make a webpage, play computer games, etc. Unless you aspire to learn about Linux itself, every second spent dealing with Linux driver issues is a waste that steals time from the actual things you want to do.

In those cases it's absolutely cruel to force someone to dedicate time to learning esoteric technical skills before they're allowed to use their computer. That's why the only people I've evangelized Linux to are people I'm happy to continue to support indefinitely or who are actively interested in learning about Linux itself.

[flkiwi]

That's the underlying point though: spending time dealing with Linux driver issues just isn't as prevalent as it was, certainly on the wide range of well-supported machines (like Thinkpads). Hell, I'm on a Macbook running NixOS unstable via Asahi and I don't spend any time dealing with driver issues thanks to the unbelievable collective effort of hundreds of projects. Yes, the issue is still present and worse than Windows, but that would have to be part of the conversation around switching--"Hey, Aunt Jennifer, we can get you off the Windows weirdness, but it might be time to pick up a new laptop to do it."

As to the first issue, you're right about installed base of Windows helpers, but my assumption is that a large proportion of folks would be switching because a family member was helping them make the move.

Pure, unfiltered anecdata, but my kid uses Linux at home and he doesn't experience even 5% of the bizarre issues he tells me about on the district Windows computers (which are, granted, about 8,000 years old).

[asoneth]

It's better than it was 20+ years ago (jeez I'm old) when I first tried Linux. Back then you needed to be fairly technical to get it running and even to do basic day-to-day tasks, but now you can use a human-friendly GUI most of the time.

But not 100% the time. And that makes it inaccessible to anyone who doesn't have a Linux expert in their life. Finding a file that got put in a weird place, plugging in USB devices, understanding what version of an application to install (apt? snap? flatpak?), permissions, weird issues after updates, etc. All solvable problems that seem simple to you or me but that would stymie a nontechnical person.

> a large proportion of folks would be switching because a family member was helping them make the move.

Exactly. Linux is fantastic if you have a technical person on speed dial or are interested in investing time and energy becoming a technical person. For the other 90% of the planet it's just not there yet.

[rstuart4133]

> Finding a file that got put in a weird place,

It's no different to Windows in that way.

> plugging in USB devices,

That it more likely to just work in Linux than Windows. The latter will probably need a special driver.

> understanding what version of an application to install

Most window managers provide software installers / managers.

> permissions,

A normal desktop user doesn't look at permissions.

> weird issues after updates,

Well, yes. Sadly the solution is the same for both Windows and Linux - wipe and re-install. It's a regular occurrence with Windows, sadly.

We had a guy bring in his Linux laptop to a LUG because it was behaving badly. Turned out he had run out of disk space. He could have fixed it himself, had he realised. But the surprising thing was - it was 15 years old, and never had an issue up until then. I've never had a Windows machine someone was using regularly last that long. App churn causes everything to degrade, NTFS fragments something horrid, it slows down to being unusable. You eventually wipe it and restart.

[asoneth]

To be clear, I wasn't arguing that a user is less likely to run into issues on Windows (or Mac). The bigger issue is that when they invariably run into an issue it's significantly easier to get the help they need to return their computer to a working state. Between their computer manufacturer, their university/company IT department, friends, relatives, blogs, books, senior citizen tech-support groups, etc there are simply more resources available, and especially more resources that are tailored to a less technical audience.

[tremon]

Yes, the issue is still present and worse than [on] Windows

I'm not sure about that... over the years I've gotten lots of perfectly functioning hardware from my father because it didn't work for him anymore because of a new Windows "upgrade". Scanners, printers, audio and graphics cards all got their turn of becoming expensive paperweights after Windows introduced a new driver model and the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to rewrite their old drivers.