[pjmlp]

Not only, the whole handmade movement puts me off.

It is the anti-intelectualism from Go culture, gone wild against C++, Rust, Swift, anything modern, or even tools, using game engines versus doing the whole computer from scratch for a game.

[kristoff_it]

Zig is not really a handmade project, case in point both Andrew and I are blocked on social media by the two gods of the handmade movement (casey and john) and, according to their die hard fans, Andrew gave a talk at the last handmade conference that caused the community to split apart (the reality is a bit more complex than this, but Andrew's talk is certainly one that you wouldn't see at their new "better software" conference).

Andrew's talk is here (second event after the two people chatting while sitting on chairs): https://handmadecities.com/media/seattle-2024/hms-day-one/

Here you can see a particularly funny (but also sad) reaction by one of these people https://drive.proton.me/urls/MB1EB4EF34#YZdvmAvBFp1C

> using game engines versus doing the whole computer from scratch for a game

That said you are doing yourself a disservice if you think that not using an engine to make a game is a form of "anti-intellectualism".

[pjmlp]

Thanks for clarification.

Depends on the attitude, not using an engine, because one wants to learn the whole stack, makes all sense, after all people need to learn how to make game engines, if nothing else for the next generation.

Not using one out of spite, because we do everything handmade over here attitude, is a completely different matter.

[brodo]

Here is another comment on the whole Handmade-Kerfuffle from one of the presenters:

https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/2025.html (the entry under 19b)

It seems this was a right vs. left (or liberal) split.

[deagle50]

more like old school lib vs "new left"

[secondary_op]

Unfortunately for everyone, people like you tie their entire identity and income to specific technologies, movements, or communities—becoming deeply tribal in the process. When something or someone undermines their sense of security—even with constructive criticism—they react defensively, often to the point of ignorance.

All this, combined with the fact that Zig, at best is still in beta quality and at worst amounts to a massive waste of everyone’s time, makes it unsurprising that people block you and simply refuse to engage with your loud community efforts, endless churn and crust tied to beta quality compiler.

> Zig is not really a handmade project, case in point both Andrew and I are blocked on social media by the two gods of the handmade movement (casey and john) and, according to their die hard fans, Andrew gave a talk at the last handmade conference that caused the community to split apart (the reality is a bit more complex than this, but Andrew's talk is certainly one that you wouldn't see at their new "better software" conference).

> Andrew's talk is here (second event after the two people chatting while sitting on chairs): https://handmadecities.com/media/seattle-2024/hms-day-one/

> Here you can see a particularly funny (but also sad) reaction by one of these people https://drive.proton.me/urls/MB1EB4EF34#YZdvmAvBFp1C

Regarding the links you posted:

In the first, at 2:30:40, Andrew Kelly publicly calls out a specific author of a competing technology in exaggerated, caricatured, and fabricated context.

In the second video, yet another author of a yet another competing technology directly points out this unapologetic and concerning behavior on Andrew Kelly’s part.

And now you—“VP of Community @ Zig Software Foundation”—assert your “righteous” stance by sharing these videos, while ironically pointing out that some of those same individuals (of competing technologies fame) block you on social media.

Too bad that doing your job probably means being as loud and visible online as possible to spread the molecules of Zig no matter what.

[baranul]

If you didn't know, Casey has made comments on a YouTube video, that he does not like Zig. His review of Zig, was that it's a language that he rather not use and would not recommend.