[toastercat]

Absolutely no on Java. Even if the core language has seen improvements over the years, choosing Java almost certainly means that your team will be tied to using proprietary / enterprise tools (IntelliJ) because every time you work at a Java/C# shop, local environments are tied to IDE configurations. Not to mention Spring -- now every code review will render "Large diffs are not rendered by default." in Github because a simple module in Java must be a new class at least >500 LOC long.

[gf000]

When did you last touch java, before 2000?

Local environments are not tied to IDEs at all, but you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't use a decent IDE irrespective of language - they are a huge productivity boost.

And are you stuck in the XML times or what? Spring Boot is insanely productive - just as a fact of matter, Go is significantly more verbose than Java, with all the unnecessary if errs.

[toastercat]

> When did you last touch java, before 2000?

August 22, 2025.

Local environments are not literally tied to IDEs, but they effectively are in any non-trivially sized project. And the reason is because most Java shops really do believe "you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't use a decent IDE irrespective of language." I get along fine with a text editor + CLI tools in Deno, Lua, and Zig. Only when I enter Java world do the wisest of the wise say "yeah there is a CLI, but I don't really know it. I recommend you download IntelliJ and run these configs instead."

Yes Spring Boot is productive. So is Ruby on Rails or Laravel.

[gf000]

Any production-grade project will use either Maven or Gradle for builds. There are CI/CD pipelines, lints, etc, how would all these work if you could only build through an IDE?

Sure, there are some awfully dated companies that still send changed files over email to each other with no version control, I'm sure some of those are stuck with an IDE config, but to be honest where I have seen this most commonly were some Visual Studio projects, not Java. Even though you could find any of these for any other language, you just need to scale your user base up. A language that hasn't even hit 1.0 will have a higher percentage of technically capable users, that's hardly a surprise.

[wing-_-nuts]

>Only when I enter Java world do the wisest of the wise say "yeah there is a CLI, but I don't really know it. I recommend you download IntelliJ and run these configs instead."

Then they obviously don't know their tooling well, and I would hesitate to call a jr 'the wisest of the wise'

[mdaniel]

I know, both proprietary and enterprise, right? https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/blob/idea/20... (I would also link to the Apache 2 copy of PyCharm but it wouldn't matter to folks who just enjoy shitting on professional tools)

[toastercat]

That's the community edition. Cute and snarky comment, though.