[dgfl]

Apes do have opposable thumbs. They still don’t really engage in any intellectual activity that we can recognize beyond basic communication. They probably have an internal dialogue, but their curiosity and capacity for communication stops at immediate needs like hunger and danger.

[bmitc]

> Apes do have opposable thumbs.

Apes are also not whales.

> that we can recognize

And there we go. That's an us problem and not a them problem.

> but their curiosity and capacity for communication stops at immediate needs like hunger and danger.

There are several interviews with native tribes who still practice hunting and gathering and that's the exact thing they worry about. Those humans are identical to us. But by your argument, "civilized" humans are more exceptional than these groups of humans?

Humans still have these basic needs and worries and thoughts. Just because we layer meta-societal pieces on top of that doesn't make them go away.

What makes humans different is technology. That does not make us different in an inherently exceptional way.

[kbelder]

>What makes humans different is technology.

Partly, but that's a side effect. What makes us different are the mental faculties that give rise to technology (and many other fields).

[bmitc]

That is why I gave the whale counterexample in the first place. If you place humans in the ocean with magic to allow them to survive, you will not get technology. If you placed whales on land with dextrous hands, you would very likely get technology.

Our mental faculties are not wholly unique. Look at an orca brain vs a human brain and ask who the smooth brain is, even ignoring the size.