[moomoo11]

I have no problem with anyone individually. I'm sure we'd all get along just fine on that level.

The issue is your gov. Same as Russia or anyone else. People are the same individually, but collectively we are not. The Lakers don’t invite the Celtics to a BBQ instead of competing on the court just because they both love shooting hoops.

You are an entrepreneur? You should come to America if you love free-r markets and entrepreneurship. You do know that you can far more easily start a company in America as a Chinese national, than I could in China as an American citizen right? We are all the same people if we go grab a bite or show each other our favorite music videos, but on a global stage we are not the same as NATIONS. That is the key distinction.

As an American, I believe that our way of life, our Constitution, and our proven ability to take all sorts of people and make our nation greater because of it is the epitome of human civilization so far. Others have had thousands of years, still failed to do much. We've only been around since 1776 and been through our own very hard lessons (Civil War, civil rights, Vietnam), though I would argue on a objective scale nowhere close to CCP or Russians..

A quick peek at recent CCP history (hey, we all have skeletons in the closet like I already conceded) shows 10s of millions of their own people murdered in purges (we can argue if it was 10 million or 40 million or 80 million, and it would be totally absurd), Tiananmen Square Massacre, Jack Ma's treatment, drowning Filipino fishermen and other S. China Sea free trade disruptions, and most recently a possible invasion of Taiwan. The possibility of a PLA invasion of Taiwan is why America has invested billions into building chip factories on-shore. As soon as the PLA launches, Taiwan is forced to destroy its own chip factories and other critical infrastructure.

I have zero faith that a CCP dominated world would be a net benefit. It is an exclusionary repressive government, it likes to purge its people randomly, and in general is just not easy to get along with. It also has a boardroom despot that's a dictator. Same thing with Russians, they have been under the rule of some truly awful people and that's just how it is at the end of the day, nothing personal.

I don't need to go on a VPN and be afraid to speak my mind here because being honest about our shortcomings and past is how we forge an actually better tomorrow.

The US also exports culture. I've been around the world, and I see people wearing NBA jerseys or going crazy in the theater watching Marvel movies with subtitles. Even the media in other countries is so heavily derivative of American culture, like pop idol bands or any TV show literally looks like American media from 10-20 years ago but in a different language that I enjoy with subtitles because it is nice to hear a different language and see the scenery there. (Really brings to light what I meant about copy/pasting or stealing from us, in literally every regard though)

They love being American, and acting like it too sometimes. That’s the beauty of America, that anyone can join (legally if physically, otherwise just vibing), and it only makes us stronger. I don’t see anyone lining up to "be Chinese" or "be Russian" in the same way, almost always the other way around. Even our biggest haters are rocking American fashion with their fighter kits lol.

[ijk]

> I don't need to go on a VPN and be afraid to speak my mind here

Well, so long as they don't crack down on VPNs here, like the UK is discussing.

[fakedang]

For a non-Westerner, the issue is always the American gov, not the average American (or maybe since the American gov is actually voted for by Americans, the issue is with them after all?). At least the Chinese and Russians are not willfully voting for a government hell-bent on global dominance and destabilizing other countries.

The America of yesteryears? Sure. Today's America? Definitely not.

[mensetmanusman]

The Chinese can’t vote…

[fakedang]

Precisely.

[moomoo11]

They aren’t voting because they are under dictators and sham pretend structures lol. They are sort of just pawns I guess? None of them will ever become self made. Tencent/Huawei or anyone else needs to stay in line with CCP and whatever decisions they make. In America businessmen are free to criticize anyone. Look what happens to Chinese entrepreneurs who get a little too successful and forget the CCP. They go to a camp and then come out with a factory reset lmao! Russians fall out of windows weekly it seems.

I mean Russia invaded Ukraine. China has literal concentration camps for Muslims and plans to invade Taiwan.

[fakedang]

The USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which don't have the faintest connection to the US mainland in any form, either culturally or otherwise.

The US has also launched bombing runs in Syria and Libya, again both of which have the faintest connection to the average American's daily life, all in the pursuit of some boogieman War on Terror.

The US has engaged in military coups to overthrow democratic governments in nearly every Latin American country.

And to crown its Opus, the US has now begun building concentration camps (once again), both on its own soil and in foreign territory.

> They are sort of just pawns I guess? None of them will ever become self made. Look what happens to Chinese entrepreneurs who get a little too successful and forget the CCP. They go to a camp and then come out with a factory reset lmao! Russians fall out of windows weekly it seems.

Sure, while the US extends the favor to foreign nationals and kidnaps them to torture them at Guantanamo, often supplied to them willingly by their British vassals. There's a poignant recorded letter in the Guardian of a young child's letter to Tony Blair asking to return his father from Guantanamo.

[moomoo11]

I like how you repeat talking points instead of conceding anything like I did.

It’s why America and her people (whether they were born here or immigrated here to become American) are greater than anyone else. We accept our faults, and yet we still strive to build a better world.

And when dealing with such scenarios, whether in business or geopolitics, I’m always partial to the genuine winner who gave an actual shit.

[fakedang]

> We accept our faults, and yet we still strive to build a better world.

Or do you? There's a significant fraction of America that is clear-cut evidence of the contrary. Your statement alone is a blatant display of misplaced American exceptionalism.

> I’m always partial to the genuine winner who gave an actual shit.

Might want to broaden your scope a bit outside your country then. Check out the following map fyi: https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ Most foreign citizens actively disagree with your assumptions. And since that map is now a bit dated, we ought to add Canada and Denmark to the list too.

Again, I'm nowhere asserting that China and Russia are models to aspire to. But calling today's America as the shining beacon of democracy and capitalism that every nation should aspire to is a bit of a farce. Especially given that your richest and best are secretly seeking citizenship in European nations.

[moomoo11]

Buddy, we vote here every 4 years for a new figurehead. America has been through way more tumultuous shit in the past (1860 civil war? hello like 700k Americans died in that) and got out of it way stronger.

Go talk doo-doo about Xi (if you can even do that), you'll get camped or your family might get rm -rf'd. Same with Putin, Kim Dong or whoever else from a authoritarian regime.

People are free to criticize in America. I know that's a luxury belief that most people won't ever know, but that's also why things are luxuries. Once you have them, it is hard to go back to Target or whatever.

If America was to go mask off and cheat by become Authoritarian like Xi or Putin, we'd wipe the floor in like 20 years tops and everyone will unite under our beautiful flag.

We're better than that though. Hell, we fought ourselves and came out BETTER for it, instead of becoming commies or other losers. We even held ourselves accountable for actions we took in the past, something our authoritarian "rivals" would never concede because they know they're wack.

[zonghao]

Yes, there's no doubt I envy these advantages of your country.

By the way, I'm replying to your comment via a proxy server in Los Angeles, HN is also not directly accessible in China. I think this is why I didn't truly understand many things until my twenties, which is a pity.

I also hope we can have a democratic government, at least one that allows free access to information and freedom of political expression.

But this conflicts with the interests of those with vested interests, who fear that giving people a little freedom will cause them to lose the wealth they gained through illicit means. I think this is unjust, but I don't know what to do.

Even Jack Ma was punished for saying the wrong thing and disappeared from public view for several years. He's the one who created Taobao and Alipay; an entrepreneur like that would be respected in the US and would have the opportunity to tell young people in the public eye: you shouldn't sigh, there are many opportunities in this world. But the truth is, the mainstream voice only teaches everyone to obey, and successful and visionary people are gradually leaving this country.

However, I see that the United States seems very chaotic, and for my personal safety, I probably won't consider going there. I really like American culture, especially Silicon Valley culture, but I might consider Singapore or Australia as better immigration destinations. Perhaps the situation in Silicon Valley is different from those chaotic neighborhoods? I'm not in the US, so I don't know much about it. I wish someone could tell me, haha.

[mensetmanusman]

It’s hard to know what to believe about any country. In the US, the media only makes money if they exaggerate threats and focus on the one burning trashcan during a city wide protest.