[nailer]

> the standard lib still forces you to rely on endless npm dependencies

How? We have async/await file access, a async/await test runner, and even async/await sleep built in. What are you missing?

[pier25]

> What are you missing?

Everything else needed to make a backend app.

At the very least, Node should provide fundamental pieces like database drivers. Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy.

Bun already provides its own PG driver [2] and Jarred has written they will keep investing into more built-in APIs.

[1] https://github.com/porsager/postgres

[2] https://bun.com/docs/api/sql

[nailer]

> Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy.

Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services.

[anarazel]

>> Currently the best PG driver[1] depends on a single guy.

> Definitely a problem, but funding good Postgres/MongoDB/SQLite should be handled by AWS, Microsoft, Google, and other orgs that sell database services.

A good chunk of PG development is done by employees of those companies (*). Of course they could (and probably should) always do more. But even if they invest more, it's not obvious that the marginal effort is best invested in some language's drivers...

Disclaimer: I'm paid by one of those big companies.

[nailer]

I’d argue that JS/TS is more popular than ‘some language’ would suggest. If there’s a problem that affects 19% of customers it should be fixed.

I am not saying this problem exists and 19% is a made up number, the grandparent post seems to think there is some kind of problem.

[pier25]

You don't think depending on dozens or even hundreds of NPM packages with a single maintainer is an issue?

Just as an example, Express depends on 25 modules with a single maintainer.

https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=express

Obviously a router is a fraction of what's needed for any non trivial backend project.

[nailer]

It's an issue, but not a new issue and not an issue introduced by NPM or introduced by package managers.

People were cuddling and pasting code from random people on the Internet they didn't understand for many years before package managers where there were zero maintainers. Many people that don't properly understand supply chain issues still are.

[pier25]

Maybe. Doesn't change the fact that the problem is there.