[griffzhowl]

Yes, that's what I mean: you need a further explanation beyond the placebo effect for why there's a different effect of the antibiotics and homeopathy, e.g. the antibiotics having their own negative effects, as you suggest, or some other confounding variable.

I'm just saying that the placebo effect, by itself, doesn't explain why homeopathy would be more effective than antibiotics

[lukan]

Oh and I am saying placebo effect is a psychological effect. Really, really hard to quantify by definition. So placebo and a placebo ain't the same thing. It depends what the person connects with it deep down in their minds. So for whatever complicated reasons the homeopathic placebo alone might have been more effective than the placebo effect of the antibiotics plus the antibiotic effect. (Maybe because their mother recommended it, and mother is connected to deep sense of trust and care)

Still, all speculation of course. I also don't rule out the possibility that (some) homeopathics do have a real efffct because of undiscovered quantum fields (whatever) and hard to quantify. But current studies do imply strongly otherwise. And I consider them sugar. But I do occasionally take some if people I like give them to me with a genuine feeling of care. That effects my mind.

[griffzhowl]

Yes, I see, fair enough. It's an interesting thought about different placebos being more or less effective. I've often wondered whether traditional faith healing methods might have evolved to be more effective at eliciting a placebo response, at least within that cultural context, but never looked into it