[ceejayoz]

> Firstly, one has to submit strong evidence, call them repeatedly, and wait for many months.

You should get an Amex. (I've had little issue with various Visa/MC issuing banks, though. Quick and easy.)

> Secondly, in the real world, any vendor like Amazon or Ebay or Uber or Lyft will immediately freeze the user's account if a dispute is initiated, barring the user from using the service.

In most cases, shady vendors are a one-off concern. If I'm charging back, I'm probably not buying from them again.

[OutOfHere]

I don't order from shady vendors.

[ceejayoz]

I wish I had a time machine!

This would explain your apparent confusion around the chargeback process.

[yunohn]

I find it hilarious when crypto nerds argue from a position of being godlike oracle beings who are just so smart they never make mistakes ever (TM) and as such, brush away concerns of fraud etc.

[OutOfHere]

Fraud is very real, but let me count the reasons why chargebacks rarely matter:

1. They don't matter for unapproved charges and renewals because crypto doesn't allow charges at all.

2. They don't matter for buying from large sites like Amazon, Ebay, Google, etc. because these large sites will quickly freeze a user's account completely if a chargeback is introduced. Most orders these days go through the large sites.

3. Chargebacks filed with Visa/MC (not Amex) require substantial evidence and follow-up for them to succeed. They are not easy. The time spent on retrieving the money back is hardly worth it for someone with a full-time job.

[yunohn]

1. Not true, see malicious smart contracts.

2. Yes and thanks to modern trad-fi law, it’s incredibly easy to get refunds and returns on basically all retail websites.

3. Not true, trivially disproved by having gone through the process multiple times with various providers myself with minimal effort and documentation. I suggest you DYOR once too.

[OutOfHere]

I appreciate when someone is well informed and shares their knowledge, but:

1. Regarding malicious smart contracts, they can steal only from incompetently written smart contracts.

2. Regarding refunds by large vendors, that's the ideal, but not the reality. I have had Uber reject a refund for unfair reasons when the driver was wasting time and didn't show up for over 15 minutes past the estimated time. I have also had Google provide me no refund for a large transaction on a scam app that fooled me.