[al_borland]

To take this a step further, I have had people argue with me that tracking and profiling online is a good thing, because it provides more relevant ads for things they want to buy. There are people who actively want ads that can better target and manipulate them into giving up their money.

I would like to say I've only run into one person like this, but no. I've lost count of how many of these people I've run into. I like to think I'm pretty good at understand other people's point of view, even if I don't agree with it. This is one I have a lot of trouble with.

I'm fine with relevant ads, but I think they should be relevant based on the context around them, not on the viewer. If I go to a website about trout fishing, show me ads that would be useful to a trout fisherman. There is no need to track anyone to do that.

[ndriscoll]

They're imagining a benevolent system that will match them to the personal best deals for them despite all evidence that megacorporations are not in fact benevolent, and will in fact use that knowledge to find the worst possible (i.e. most profitable) deals that they'll still accept, or abuse their psychology to get them to buy things they shouldn't, etc.

They think the system is thinking "ohh! I bet X will like this pair of shoes! And this is a great deal on them!" when in fact a more accurate model is "Who is willing to pay the most to put a message in front of someone with the following detailed list of characteristics?" and then people bid for the right to manipulate you, so even if 2 companies are trying to sell you the exact same thing that you do want, the one that thinks they can extract more from you will pay more and win the spot.

[nkrisc]

It’s because they view the world with a consumerist mindset and buying things gives them pleasure.

[DanielHB]

My partner got upset when I added a pihole to our network because she wouldn't see ads in google search. She said most of the time she doesn't mind the pihole but when she is actively looking for things to buy she wants the ads.

What I ended up doing is setting up two separate wifi networks, one with the pihole DNS server and one without it. So she can opt to turn it on.

But yeah overall I agree with you, the ads skew the research by whoever is paying the most for marketing BUT they also work as a filter so you only see stuff that people actually spend money to market on. For _some_ types of products the "barrier to entry" in the ad space can guarantee a certain level of quality (or at least reduce the change for scams).

[al_borland]

> For _some_ types of products the "barrier to entry" in the ad space can guarantee a certain level of quality (or at least reduce the change for scams).

I have always associated online ads with people who are trying to scam me. Like the giant “download” button ads on sites hosting actual software downloads. Decades of dealing with this kind of thing has led to a deep distrust of all online advertising, to the point where I pay for Kagi to not only not have ads in my search engine, but not even support the business model of using ads to fund a website.

I see people get scammed all the time from ads. It’s an easy way for the scammers to funnel users to their site. Most people I know have tried buying something based on a Facebook ad, from some random Shopify site, and never got their purchase.

[lrvick]

You are more accommodating than me.

Profit driven targeted content of any kind, especially ads, are poison. I could never knowingly enable anyone in my household to harm themselves with something so toxic to brain health and quality of life.

In terms of things I want far away from my home and family, surveillance capitalism driven technology ranks up there with meth.

[DanielHB]

She does hate it everywhere else though and I find google search ads are not nearly as bad when you are actively looking for a specific product.

But yeah I tend to agree with you, the companies/products paying for the ads are not necessarily the best ones to buy from.

[immibis]

I can think of one thing I've bought because of ads. I've bought fiber-optic networking bits from fs.com because I saw ads for them. They also have the cheapest prices. But if not for ads I wouldn't know that.

[charcircuit]

People paying money for things is a win win situation. People are not just "manipulated into giving up their money", they get something they value more than money in return.

[immibis]

Correction: People think they get more something they value more than the money.

It's easier to trick someone into thinking they're receiving value from you, than to actually provide that value.

But I've had this argument before, so I know the reply will be that value is defined as the feeling of receiving value, therefore they are delivering real value.

[al_borland]

The advertisements convince them it is something they value. Most of what people buy becomes clutter and trash almost instantly.

A lot of this stuff is being purchased with debt. People aren’t happy about their debt, their inability to buy a house, or all the clutter that consumes their home. Yet, in the moment, they are led to believe that a Labubu is what they really desire. It’s not.