[popalchemist]

Most people do not realize it, but the tech industry is largely predicated on a cult which many people belong to without ever realizing it, which is the cult of "scientism", or in the case of pro-AI types, a subset of that, which is accelerationism. Nietzsche and Jung jointly had the insight that in the wake of the enlightenment, God had been dethroned, yet humans remained in need of a God. For many, that God is simply material power - namely money. But for tech bros, it is power in the form of technology, and AI is the avatar of that.

So the emotional process which results in the knee-jerk reactions to even the slightest and most valid critiques of AI (and the value structure underpinning Silicon Valley's pursuit of AGI) comes from the same place that religous nuts come from when they perceive an infringement upon their own agenda (Christianity, Islam, pick your flavor -- the reactivity is the same).

[DyslexicAtheist]

your Nietzsche reference made me wonder about one of his other sayings that if you stare into the abyss for too long the abyss will stare into you. And that seems fitting with how AI responses are always phrased in a way that make you feel like you're the genius for even asking a specific question. And if we spend more time engaging with AI (which tricks us emotionally) will we also change our behavior and expect everyone else treating us like a genius in every interaction? What NLP does AI perform on humans that we haven't become aware of yet?

[viridian]

It absolutely will change us. Just like how the internet has changed how people read and search for information, or cell phones have changed the acceptable level of communication between parents and teenage children.

As a tiny micro example, I think Reddit's /r/myBoyfriendisAI is an early glimpse into something that's going to become far, far more common with time. One person talking to ChatGPT and reaching a state where they receive and accept a marriage proposal is a novelty. 100,000 people doing the same is something quite different.

[dns_snek]

> will we also change our behavior

Yes, absolutely, we're shaped by everything we do, every interaction we have and every behavioral pattern we repeat over time. I don't think that's a controversial idea in the slightest. The extent of this is going to vary from person to person and probably depend on what proportion of time you spend interacting with bots vs well-adjusted humans and the younger people are, the stronger the effect will be, generally speaking.

[gsf_emergency_2]

By no means trying to be charitable here, though:

AI seems to be a attempt to go beyond Jane Jacobs', to go beyond systems of survival (commerce vs values) as vehicles of passion & meaning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_of_Survival

It's made more headway than scientism because it at least tries to synthesize from both precursor systems, especially organized religion. Optimistically, I see it as a test case for a more wholesome ideology to come

From wiki:

>There are two main approaches to managing the separation of the two syndromes, neither of which is fully effective over time:

1. Caste systems – Establishing rigidly separated castes, with each caste being limited, by law and tradition, to use of one or the other of the two syndromes.

2. Knowledgeable flexibility – Having ways for people to shift back and forth between the two syndromes in an orderly way, so that the syndromes are used alternately but are not mixed in a harmful manner.

Scientists (adherents of scientism) have adopted both strats poorly, in particularly vacillating between curiosity and industrial applications. AI is more "effective" in comparison

[popalchemist]

Interesting link, thanks.

Perhaps it is true that one ideology can be more wholesome than another, but it is definitely true that no ideology is without its poison --

An ideology is an incomplete mythology; only a mythology is capable of orienting us toward all facets of life, as life intrinsically and inextricably involves a mysterious aspect -- the domain of all that which we don't and may not ever understand. Ideologies reduce the territory (of reality; of lived experience) to a map which excludes that.

[crinkly]

Think that’s fairly accurate.

Also like religious ideologies there’s a lack of critical thinking and an inverse of applicability. The last one has been in my mind for a few months now.

Back in the old days I’d start with a problem and find a solution to it. Now we start with a solution and try and create a problem that needs to be solved.

There a religious parallel to that but I’ve probably pissed off enough people now and don’t want to get nailed to a tree for my writings.

[chillingeffect]

Which aspects of God are we seeking, post-Christianity? It seems the focus is on power and creation, w/o regard for unity, discipline, or forgiveness. It's not really a complete picture of God.