[trainsarebetter]

It’s funny how as we increase a nations gdp, and general wealth, we commodify everything. day care, dog walkers, psychical activity, etc and then we have to go back and do all this market research and artificially recreate what was holistic about the more rural way of life.

There really is no free lunch!

[potato3732842]

It's not like those things weren't all getting done before. They just didn't generate commerce and didn't generate GDP. GDP goes up because of commodifying all those things. It's not clear if it's actually more efficient this way though.

[trainsarebetter]

That’s my point really, we just commercialized everything, and introduced a bunch of extra steps. Could argue it enabled us to scale and handle very large amounts of people residing together.

[jerlam]

Rural doesn't mean walkable, unless you mean either pre-automobile or physical jobs.

[jewayne]

True. I grew up in the country, along a busy road. I never walked or biked anywhere, and it was very isolating. Moving to a city that had quiet residential streets, wide sidewalks, and actual bike paths was a game changer for me.

I wonder how much damage that did to me, to have that lack of physical activity during my formative years.

[mothballed]

An issue for kids nowadays is being outside unattended is basically illegal (for instance IL / Chicago, minimum age unattended is 14). Therefore they might get more activity in the country on a bigger acreage alongside an unwalkable road, than they would in the city in a walkable area, unlike an adult.

As soon as you get near people, if there is a enough, a Karen will rat the kid out as soon as they touch public property and maybe before it. They are only safe from CPS tyrants when they are out of sight.

[hardolaf]

It's not illegal to leave a child under 14 unattended in Illinois. It is however illegal to leave a child under 14 unattended for an unreasonable amount of time in Illinois.

Here's an actual page from the government explaining the law and even providing the text of the law: https://dcfs.illinois.gov/for-families/safety/preparing-your...

If you follow their advice and your child is ready to reasonably able to be left alone unattended, you can leave even 8-9 year olds unattended for long periods of time. It's not odd for children to be home alone after school for 4-8+ hours.

Your opinion on "CPS" in Illinois (I assume you meant DCFS and not Chicago Public Schools) is based on not understanding a single paragraph of the law that is written to be readable by the general public.

Kids go all over the place in Chicago while under 14 without their parents. It's literally not an issue.

[mothballed]

Illinois lawyers [0] and child's rights policy thinkers [1] had evaluated it to mean a child under 14 can not be 'reasonably' left alone, up until 2023. It looks like you are correct and they updated it recently under an amended 705 ILCS 405/2-3 in January 2023.

Unless your child was born in the past couple years or following legislation, I think most people don't realize this, as even most the law firms still have the old '14' as the min age on their neglect pages. So you are correct with the asterisk that it glosses over that it was the case up until the past couple years and you are updating us on a new development.

>Your opinion on "CPS" in Illinois (I assume you meant DCFS and not Chicago Public Schools) is based on not understanding a single paragraph of the law that is written to be readable by the general public.

My opinion is based on what legal advice I got when I last researched it a few years ago. A lot of Illinois law is read in the context of common law precedent that makes the actual text less reliable. Mea Culpa.

[0] https://www.mkfmlaw.com/blog/at-what-age-can-a-child-be-left...

[1] https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-has-highest-home-alo...

[hardolaf]

Your first source is trying to sell a service, namely lawsuits against your ex. The law in 2022 was the same [0] in regards to the text that I mentioned. And as far as I can tell, that's the original text of the law as it was first passed in 1987.

The 2024 update [1] was basically just fixing typos.

The 2023 update [2] was reaffirming the original text and added safeguards to prevent abuse by police and prosecutors misapplying the law. This update did remove the explicit age mentioned, but if you look at the deleted text, you had to leave a minor unattended for a very long period of time not just "a trip to the store" for the law to have been violated before the change despite what the divorce attorneys were trying to tell people on their misleading website.

Also, I'm not going to go into my rant about IPI intentionally misleading people and lying by omissions and funny ways of presenting "data". If you use them as a source for anything and expect that what you read was the truth, then that's on you. They're a propaganda organization that spreads even more disinformation than the Heritage Foundation.

[0] https://codes.findlaw.com/il/chapter-705-courts/il-st-sect-7...

[1] https://www.ilga.gov/Legislation/publicacts/view/103-0605

[2] https://www.ilga.gov/Legislation/publicacts/view/103-0233

[alaithea]

Your concerns are extremely valid, but it is not _that_ bad in many places in America. I relocated my family specifically so that my kids could have a walkable community to live in, and since then (about five years), we've had no issues with them getting to schools, parks, the library, friends' houses, and downtown shops on their own.

That said, we live in the inner district of a small city that was settled in the mid 19th century, so it has a street grid, alleys, uninterrupted sidewalks, etc.... everything that makes a place as safe as possible in this day and age for kids to get around without getting hit by a car. (One exception being dedicated biking infrastructure, which would be awesome.)

[sersi]

At what age did you start letting your kids run errands or walk to school by themselves?

[hardolaf]

In Chicago, kids start going to school by themselves between 8 and 13 depending on how comfortable their parents are with them behaving properly on the way to school.

[alaithea]

Mine walked to school (< 10 minute walk) at about second grade. Running errands at about fourth.

[stevesimmons]

I can't comprehend an environment where kids aged 14 can't be independent. From age 5, I walked 20 minutes to and from school every day.

[throwanem]

It does and it doesn't. Walking a mile used to be nothing. Now it's a social status signifier, being able to afford to be able to use your own legs to go places. Even at that, most who do probably still spend more time paying to go to some gym.

[footy]

I live in the most urban environment that exists in my country and get significantly more physical activity than the car-dependent rural dwellers in my family. As it is, I am almost 40 and have never owned a car, cities are great.

[bracketfocus]

That probably means you are an outlier.

One thing I see, is that people in urban environments typically opt-in to exercise (like voluntarily going on a run). Whereas those in more rural areas have more physical demanding jobs and responsibilities.

I’m an urban-based desk jockey who exercises a lot but it doesn’t really compare to my more rurally-based friends who are on their feet working blue collar jobs 5 days a week.

[footy]

no, I am talking about actual urban environments where people get around by walking, cycling, or maybe using public transit. Sure, I voluntarily lift and go for a run. But if I want to see friends, buy food, go to the doctor, go to the pharmacy or the record store or the gym or generally leave my apartment I have to walk.

Suburbanites who are only active while engaging in intentional exercise because they need to get in their car to go anywhere are in the worst situation.

[hardolaf]

I get 1 mile of walking in a day at a minimum just going to and from the train in Chicago. I hit the 6K steps minimum that my watch wants by default every day by around 1-2pm if I take the bus transfer from the train to my office. I usually end around 8-10K steps just doing my commute and walking around the office. Going to the grocery store is another 2K steps roundtrip. Going out to dinner is another 1+ mile of walking minimum unless I get fast food.

When I lived in suburbs, I had to go out of my way to get even 6K steps in a whole day.

[WarOnPrivacy]

> Suburbanites who are only active while engaging in intentional exercise because they need to get in their car to go anywhere are in the worst situation.

This is true. We have nowhere to go on foot. In every direction we have roads, private property and that's it.

If we walk we risk automobile/pedestrian injury, unless we'd prefer to risk trespassing charges. This is also the full selection of kids' choices, btw.

[footy]

> This is also the full selection of kids' choices, btw.

I grew up in an environment where these where my choices and it was terrible, it's a big part of why I've made "being able to go anywhere on foot" a goal.

[keybored]

It’s funny how in a society everything gets commodified to the point of commodifying what you previously got (for free) as a side-effect of the typical lifestyle? I don’t think that’s “funny” as in ironic or puzzling—I think it’s entirely freaking predictable.

Be right back. I just have to look for a completely quiet treadmill for the open office where I spend my life.

[keybored]

It’s funny how people think history is such a railroaded farce of “more progress more better” that when people get obese due to driving too much then that’s just the oopsie-doopsie irony of progress “backfiring”. No free lunch. I guess it’s easy to sell people on whatever is the status quo when all they can imagine is a straight line either regressing or progressing.

[uoaei]

GDP doesn't represent much about output so much as how much money people pay for what outputs. It follows directly from this that if you want to increase GDP, you start commodifying activities that previously were not measured in economic terms, e.g. childcare, art, etc.

[abdullahkhalids]

The places that they see people walking the most are places like New York or San Fransisco. In what way are these places rural?