[brandokyk]

they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanciaga of creative tech basically

so they are trying to put out some cheap good value products to signal a return of the original hacker ethos

[thomascountz]

Being called "...a Balanciaga of creative tech" isn't a "branding problem," if it is, in fact, the brand.

We may or may not agree about it being a brand we'd buy, of even if it's an accurate description, but there's little doubt for me that TE has an identifiably unique and profitable brand.

[gyomu]

The world of music hardware is an interesting one.

You'll meet some amazing musicians who have been touring for decades and are still playing on the same guitar they got for $800 15 years ago.

And you'll meet people who drop 5 figures on synth gear every year and have never put together a single track.

If you're running a business selling electronic music gear, who would you rather target?

[cole-k]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(guitar)

Not to defend Teenage Engineering, but I have seen a surprising number of OP-1s in music videos/live performances of bands I respect. Does that justify its price tag? I feel somewhat certain in saying "no," but I have no expertise. Love its aesthetics though.

[gyomu]

The OP1 is a genius piece of design tbh. It is very flexible and powerful for its small size, and devices in its category were very rare when it first came out (it helped define the modern incarnation of that category).

It was pricy but still under the $1k mark - pretty standard for a piece of consumer creative gear.

The design made it extremely approachable, which means a ton of techie people who wouldn't be into music gear otherwise still wanted to grab one just to try it and who knows, maybe it'd turn them into musicians.

So yeah, fantastically designed piece of kit. Lots of respect to TE for having brought that into the world.

I think a lot of the frustration directed at TE more recently is due to the fact that that base equation around price/features/quality of the product, which was very good for the OP1, has only gotten worse for later products.

And the OP1 itself, despite being an almost 15 year old product, has gone up in price A LOT (and the 1f upgrades don't justify the bump).

[phatskat]

I fell in love with the OP1 when I first saw it many many years ago. A few years back I took some of my bonus and finally got one, despite the price being a little higher than launch (I want to say maybe $1500?).

It’s an amazing little piece of gear and is super fun - it’s definitely not for everyone, and requires a different approach to music making that (for me) focuses less on the functional, reproducible aspect, and more on an ephemeral journey that might end in a new track or might just be a jam, but I hardly ever fire it up and walk way not having a good time.

Currently have it wired to a Deluge and a POM-400, and mostly I send some MIDI notes to the OP1 for some added depth. But the synth engine feels so rich and powerful for such a little bugger!

10/10 would recommend and also there’s probably a lot more bang for your musical buck out there (cough couch Deluge)

[giraffe_lady]

It's not particularly expensive for professional music gear, which enough professional musicians use it as that I think I have to consider it that as well. Whatever else teenage engineering sells I don't really have an opinion about but that thing gets serious use by serious professionals so I feel obligated to take it seriously. Compared to a nord piano or a cello or a rhodes or a stage mixer or whatever it's not among the most expensive pieces of gear you will routinely see on a stage.

[cole-k]

> ... enough professional musicians use it as that I think I have to consider it that as well.

While not a bad proxy, I would say it is a sufficient but not necessary condition. Especially since many pros have the money to blow on overpriced gear (but perhaps you do too).

My own anecdote: as a kid I wanted to learn electric guitar and, of course being a kid, I shopped with my eyes. My dad bought me a $1.2k guitar. It's still a respectable guitar to this day, don't get me wrong. But if he had instead taken the old electric in the garage (bought for probably $500) and spent a hundred bucks on getting it set up, I would've had a guitar just as good. I know because I dug it out recently and I actually think it is quite nice.

An example to a more extreme degree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klon_Centaur#Legacy

[giraffe_lady]

Well the entirety of my music gear is a 1994 p-bass and a mediocre amp I've been running it through since around the same time so I get it.

And yeah a musician friend of mine we have a running joke where we'll say something is "a software engineer pedal." Meaning you see them in the home studios of people who make good money doing something else, while working musicians get by with the nearest Boss equivalent.

I've never used an OP-1, wouldn't know how to use one or evaluate it. But I've been on stage with enough of them to get the sense that, if used fully, they can for some approaches to some styles of music, fill the role of several other pieces of gear that would each cost more than what it costs.

So I think this one is both. It's a software engineer's toy, and it's also a workhorse tool for professionals. Honestly an impressive achievement, not a lot of things end up being both in any discipline.

[gyomu]

> "a software engineer pedal."

hah, in the world of photography, we talk about "cameras for dentists" (they often have a little red dot on them)

[Gigachad]

Because you realistically don't need any physical hardware to make digital music. A laptop and some software is everything you really need. Perhaps a microphone for vocals and a cheap keyboard controller for input.

Everything about Teenage Engineering and related synths are toys. You can make real music with their toys but they don't do anything you couldn't do on your laptop.

The stuff TE makes are incredibly high build quality and beautiful toys though. I used to have an OP-1 for a while before I sold it. One of the coolest coffee table toys I've ever touched.

[JoeyJoJoJr]

> incredibly high build quality

OP-Z was absolutely garbage build quality. It was so disappointing to bring it out of its box after a year only to discover half of the buttons stopped working properly. Aside from the build quality I love that device,

[dclowd9901]

Personally? I'd target the musicians. But I personally find more value in working with creatives than people with money to throw away.

[worthless-trash]

Then you move zero product.

[tshaddox]

> You'll meet some amazing musicians who have been touring for decades and are still playing on the same guitar they got for $800 15 years ago.

This is a nice story, but I suspect it's rarer than you make it sound. Serious working musicians like serious equipment which tends to cost a lot of money for a good reasons.

But these are also lower volume products, and I agree with your overall point that the music gear industry is kept alive by hobbyists with disposable income.

[kristopolous]

I never saw them in any other way. High end brands with conspicuous design have existed in tech for at least 100 years. Fancy cars, televisions and audio equipment for instance. Before that, there were ornate luxury tools.

[motorest]

> they have a branding problem - they are starting to being perceived like a snobby brand with ridiculously overpriced products sold as a status symbol - a Balanciaga of creative tech basically

I don't think your opinion is well grounded. Their whole product line, from the inception, was luxury high-end, sometimes gimmicky, media devices.

Why do you feel justified to tag the "hacker ethos" buzzword? Because some of their products sell as PCB-only/optional custom case format?

[wahnfrieden]

They’ve always had those two tiers of pricing/products. That’s a read from a decade ago

[isoprophlex]

Browsing through their store I see only the "overpriced balenciaga-tier bullshit" category though...

Edit: i kinda take that back, as two people pointed out that EP-133 sampler actually has an okay feature-to-price ratio.

But $250 leather wraps to "transport" your OP-1 in tho, or $250 singing wooden dolls without obvious interfaces except bluetooth midi... i guess I'm not the target market

[grimoald]

The pocket operators and the EP-133 sampler are fairly priced.

[imp0cat]

Yeah, the pocket operators are fine.

    starting to being perceived [...] brand with ridiculously overpriced products

I am confused, I thought they always were perceived as such a brand. Perhaps not snobby, but great stuff, which is also expensive.

[wahnfrieden]

They also have a free Android instrument, and their modular line is very cheap relatively

[unfunco]

The field system is probably what you're seeing, products like the EP-133 are reasonably priced: https://teenage.engineering/store/ep-133

[wahnfrieden]

When PO debuted they were $49

[monster_truck]

This is a naive take, borderlining on bait. They are not 'trying', they have by and large succeeded. Both the PO and KO series devices are fantastic value for their respective prices.

If you consider something like the TX-6 an overpriced status symbol, you have clearly never tried to make a 6 channel stereo mixer this small with these specs. And if you can't imagine a use for something so small and portable, then it simply isn't for you.

[microtonal]

While the POs are fun devices for their price, the KO-II is a very limited, frustrating device. I fell into the hype and got one and after only two weeks after a complete beginner I realized I bought an over-expensive toy. An SP-404 MKII only costs a bit more and completely blows it away - actually usable display, almost unlimited sample storage, nicer step editing, far better and useful FX, etc. TE hypers will say it is much more complex and thus less fun and 'immediate' (they love to use that word), but for me the learning curve was about equal (for using the same functionality, the MK-II has much more functionality).

Or, since this is Hacker News. The Dirtywave M8 is a much much nicer device (does sampling and is a good ol' tracker) with synths, etc. Sure, it is more expensive, but you can make an M8 headless for just the price of a Teensy MCU. The UI is also much quicker and nicer than the KO-II once you get a feel for it.

tl;dr: bought a KO-II, even as a beginner I ran into its limits almost immediately. There are much better devices out there at similar price points (or much cheaper if you hook up an M8 headless to a laptop or cheap handheld game console).

[JoeyJoJoJr]

FYI, you can also connect that Teensy to one of those portable gameboy style handhelds to get an experience closer to the actual M8.

[microtonal]

Yep, I mentioned that at the end :). Got a real M8 second-hand, love it! So compact for travel etc.